Southerners Living in Twin Cities: How is life there? (Minneapolis: house, school district)

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by southernsmoke

I think people take offense at the "oh hey, we're from Minnesota and we know better than you backwards people" attitude--it's somewhat of a vicious cycle (the refusal to accept new ideas from other regions of the country) because even if Minnesotans did have some worthwhile contribution to Georgia's education system, people aren't going to be terribly receptive to anybody who acts like that.

I totally agree. Acting like a know it all ain't gonna work anywhere.

And oh by the way, Atlanta is 54% black; Minneapolis is 70% white (and only 17% black); St. Paul is 67% white (only 13% black). I don't want to get into racial issues too much--after all, there is no single issue about which ignorant (white) people love to rip the South--but that is a huge cultural difference, and a major challenge for Atlanta's education system. And for what it's worth, Minnesota's black-white racial achievement gap is significantly worse than Georgia's. See NAEP - Achievement Gaps. Adds a whole level of complexity to that little "we think our poorest kids are just as important as our richest kids" schtick.

Yep, I've heard that stat, and it puzzles and also admittedly concerns me. Is it a cultural thing where a subset of black kids (or inner city kids of any race) just don't care? Is it the result of a larger percentage of single-parent families in certain ethnic groups?

You're absolutely right, though, that Atlanta does have a more challenging population mix in some respects. Combine that with far less flexible school zoning and somewhat larger peaks and valleys of wealth than you see in the Twin Cities, and you end up with a patchwork quilt of quality instead of a fairly homogeneous network of schools. The general suspicion of government I see down here doesn't help, either. People would rather have lots of little governments doing their own thing than a few larger ones cooperating. I can certainly see why to a point, but...

It's a cultural difference.

[southernsmoke]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

Yep, I've heard that stat, and it puzzles and also admittedly concerns me. Is it a cultural thing where a subset of black kids (or inner city kids of any race) just don't care? Is it the result of a larger percentage of single-parent families in certain ethnic groups?

Yeah, I suspect it is a little of both of those things. And sort of as a corollary to the "just don't care" thing, there may be a big influence from "black culture" as it exists in pop culture/celebrities. So many black cultural icons are "too cool for school" (see, e.g., Lil Wayne) that I feel like while that arrogant and apathetic attitude is the popular thing for a lot of kids, that is especially true for black kids.

[Mdcastle]

I know there are residents in Twin Cities from all over the country. I'm seriously considering to move up north somewhere for a change and Twin Cities happen to be one of the locations of my interest. I have heard many great things about Minneapolis-St. Paul Metro.

Are Minnesotans welcoming and friendly where making new friends won't be an issue?
I'd say about average. Friendlier than the Northeast. Not as friendly as the South.

Has any of the hospitals in Twin Cities ranked as one of the finest in the country? I happen to be a Registered Nurse (RN) myself.
Mayo down in Rochester of course, the U of M (part of the Fairview Health system) get's mentioned too.

Are winters really that bitter and harsh even if you are dressed properly? There's weather drawbacks to virtually everywhere in the country, so you just deal with them. Typically you just throw on a coat to go from your house to your car to work since you'll only be out in the cold a few minutes, I normally even wear a leather jacket rather than a parka; more substantial bundling is only really needed if you want to be out for a period of time, it's often in the 20s in winter which you can be outside comfortably in appropriate clothing. People just avoid skiing and such if the day is below zero or something; typically only a couple of days every winter.

Central heating is universal (although many older homes and schools lack centeral air) and energy is relatively inexpensive so you can keep your house warm. Buildings are built different here; car washes are enclosed and heated; apartments and schools have interior hallways. Houses almost always have basements so you have a place to stash your stuff.

[Thegonagle]

I'm not a know-it-all. But I play one online.

I think most of us honestly believe that every child deserves a good education, but we don't agree how to make it happen. Look at the recent Eden Prairie fiasco.

The important thing is to make sure we keep doing what we know works, while remaining flexible and open to new ideas when new problems arise, such as the growing immigrant populations in various districts, and the achievement gap between black and non-black students. It definitely doesn't get better if we ignore it.

I'm not saying throw money at problems either, but when they say "we want to do this, which will achieve that, and we need to hire this many qualified people for so many dollars," a little more thought, and little less knee-jerk "big government" bashing is called for.

[OleMissRN]

I plan to rent a place in Twin Cities first until I get to know all neighborhoods better.

I'm thinking about long term. Would it be better to rent rather than buying a house or a townhouse in Twin Cities? I know renting is for the best in some expensive cities like San Francisco and Seattle while buying is affordable in other cities such as most southern cities.

The ownership of a house comes with all maintenance works unless you buy a townhouse where you could pay the association fee annually to handle repairs, yard work, and snow removal.

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by OleMissRN

I plan to rent a place in Twin Cities first until I get to know all neighborhoods better.

I'm thinking about long term. Would it be better to rent rather than buying a house or a townhouse in Twin Cities? I know renting is for the best in some expensive cities like San Francisco and Seattle while buying is affordable in other cities such as most southern cities.

The ownership of a house comes with all maintenance works unless you buy a townhouse where you could pay the association fee annually to handle repairs, yard work, and snow removal.

If you're going to be around for the long-term, then I do believe that this is one of those cities where it makes sense to buy. That said, there are also many valid reasons to rent. If I'm remembering right, the NPR Marketplace author of the book "The New Frugality (Chris Farrell) chose to rent in St. Paul, not own, and cites other local residents who have also figured out that renting made better sense for them in the long-run.

[OleMissRN]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

If you're going to be around for the long-term, then I do believe that this is one of those cities where it makes sense to buy. That said, there are also many valid reasons to rent. If I'm remembering right, the NPR Marketplace author of the book "The New Frugality (Chris Farrell) chose to rent in St. Paul, not own, and cites other local residents who have also figured out that renting made better sense for them in the long-run.

Thanks for your suggestion of the book! There are both pros and cons of renting and buying.

I wouldn't mind staying long term and buying if I can find something like a free standing house (no shared walls) that is headed by an association (no maintenance) like a townhouse. I think it's truly best of both worlds.

[emcee squared]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

These are my own observations as a native Minnesotan based on what I have seen in the last seven years living in the Atlanta metro:

While it isn't really fair to lump all of "the south" into one monolithic entity, just like it isn't fair to lump all of "the midwest" together, I think the Atlanta area and State of Georgia both have a lot to learn from the Twin Cities and the State of Minnesota, especially in the areas of regional cooperation and education.

Whether or not that applies to the rest of the south I have no idea, but from what I've seen, the potshots people are taking up here are not inaccurate. Some areas of the south are vastly different from others, of course. But folks down here seem to be very slow to adopt ANYTHING from other areas of the country, and that sort of NIH attitude means that change is a very slow process. The huge level of balkanization in GA makes it even worse, since even an accepted new idea often gets bogged down by NIMBY attitudes and an overlying belief that large-scale cooperation is somehow "socialist" in nature.

Sometimes I wonder how this area functions at all.

Absolutely right. Now having spent the good portion of 2 years living in the Atlanta metro, it baffles me how many stereotypes about the south are true. I'm not saying all schools are bad or the environment is all trash, but many aspects of life could take a dose of Twin Cities. I never knew how good I had it until I spent 5 minutes sitting at a red light with no cars in sight for miles just because simple transportation infrastructure (time the friggen lights!) is lacking.

I hate broad assumptions about places as much as the next guy, but living and working in the south definitely opened my eyes. That said, there are some spectacularly beautiful areas of the metro that have little competition in Minnesota.

[southernsmoke]

Originally Posted by emcee squared

Absolutely right. Now having spent the good portion of 2 years living in the Atlanta metro, it baffles me how many stereotypes about the south are true. I'm not saying all schools are bad or the environment is all trash, but many aspects of life could take a dose of Twin Cities. I never knew how good I had it until I spent 5 minutes sitting at a red light with no cars in sight for miles just because simple transportation infrastructure (time the friggen lights!) is lacking.

I hate broad assumptions about places as much as the next guy, but living and working in the south definitely opened my eyes. That said, there are some spectacularly beautiful areas of the metro that have little competition in Minnesota.

LOL. I never knew how good I had it until I spent 5 minutes sitting at a red left turn light in Minnesota while the non-turning light was green and there was no oncoming traffic (get rid of useless left turn red lights!).

As a broader matter, a lot of stereotypes have some truth to them, both about Atlanta and Minneapolis (as well as other places), especially if you are looking for things that will confirm the stereotype. But a lot of the stereotype is at least exaggerated.

Furthermore, the thing that I really took issue with was the potshot at education (as well as the implied assertion that Minnesota's state government is a model of functional government). I took issue with the self-righteous statement about educating poor students because such statements oversimplify a complex issue.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by southernsmoke

LOL. I never knew how good I had it until I spent 5 minutes sitting at a red left turn light in Minnesota while the non-turning light was green and there was no oncoming traffic (get rid of useless left turn red lights!).

Yep, MN has stupid traffic lights, too. And the ones they've installed here in Cobb recently are quite smart. Not coordinated, but they are looking at it.

You make some good points, and Atlanta has a lot going for it. Now, if only real estate prices would settle down and start going UP again. I love love love my house down here, but I hate having negative equity.