Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
the military, regardless of branch, task or job DOES NOT give a **** about origins of technique, or how a technique was created or changed, they simply DO. they dont care about who modified what, they simply want a manual or curriculum for the instructors to teach the students from.
That's like saying, "The military, regardless of branch, does not give a **** about the origins of food." Well, if that's the case, then how would you know what you're eating?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas
you are obviously NOT from a military back ground so i find it funny that you would try to discredit mine. this is clearly the case as you obviously think you know more about military training then i do.
I didn't say I did. I might, however, be able to look at different techniques and identify their origins better than you. It's like the difference between someone who can simply tell you the name of a song and someone who can tell you the songs that the bassline, melody, and syncopation were all sampled from to make that song.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas
this doesnt mean these people are military instructors it means they taught some military at some point.
I never said that they were military instructors. I said that they teach special forces (or taught guys who teach special forces).
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas
bruce lee was widely believed to have learned much of if not all of his grappling from judo gene lebell. (or so says the crazy old man himself)
That's like saying, "The military, regardless of branch, does not give a **** about the origins of food." Well, if that's the case, then how would you know what you're eating?
this is just silly. im here to tell you the united states military doesnt give a **** if a double leg takedown is from judo, free style wrestling greco or some kid behind the barn. they know double leg takedowns are effective when executed properly. they dont care if a round kick to the body comes from muay thai or from tae kwon do. they only care if the techniques are effective and how to do them properly. that said go watch the MACP video (now all but the industry standard so to speak) and pick out the wing chun, or what not. i will give you that per the JKD philosophy it is all JKD. there is not a single form in a modern combatives program from any form of kung fu (gung fu, or how ever else you want to spell/call it)
I didn't say I did. I might, however, be able to look at different techniques and identify their origins better than you. It's like the difference between someone who can simply tell you the name of a song and someone who can tell you the songs that the bassline, melody, and syncopation were all sampled from to make that song.
you might be able to tel me the origins of techniques, but whats your point? how do you know i cant teach or practice them better then you? telling me that helio gracie learned judo from maeda who was a kodakon judoka but called his judo jujitsu. that doesnt mean you know HOW to do jiu jitsu or judo.
I never said that they were military instructors. I said that they teach special forces (or taught guys who teach special forces).
you said they created the military's combatives programs. im still asking you to show me where they did this. as before im here to tell you from my personal experience in the 75th ranger regiment, from the MACP, from others who where combat instructors and people i know who are SF, and in some cases currently fighting professionally in mma that nothing you have shown/said is being taught to the united states military. best i can figure, you read mr fong say he was called up by the military to help create their system. maybe in 1975???? while i was not in the military in the early to mid 80's i have good personal sources to verify the ranger and SF combats incorporated western boxing, judo and a bit of wrestling with very little leg strikes.
you might be able to tel me the origins of techniques, but whats your point?
I was responding to this point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas
As an army ranger I can tell you they also do not teach any of that silly stuff to any military I know of.
If you don't know the origins of the arts, then you don't really know what's being taught. You apply these very crude distinctions (JKD, hiya! Karate, hiya! Judo Chop! Hiya!) when most of the fighting methods we see today are not purely Judo or purely Jiu-jitsu or purely Wing Chun. They're often adapted mixtures of various arts.
The fact that you called Wing Chun "silly stuff" tells me about everything I need to know about your knowledge of martial arts.
so what you're saying is if a person doesnt know the origins of a technique then they can not properly utilize said technique in a self defense/combat situation? that is one of the most ridiculous statements i have ever read.
so who created wing chun? and where did he learn the techniques? and who taught that person? and who taught them?
so tell me who invented the triangle choke? where did it come from?
who invented the round kick? or a right cross? where did these techniques come from? what are their origins?
Van Dame is LEGIT. His amateur record is like 19-1 with 18 by KO. His biggest accomplishment as a fighter was when he competed and went to the WKA International that's held every year in Tampa, FL. Some people dispute that he never made it to the finals, but did fight in Florida, so maybe as an alternate. My teammates didn't win during the prelims neither, but their fights were good enough that they were still invited to fight in Tampa to represent Team USA. I fought this same WKA tournament a few years ago and lost my first fight in the prelims and went home.
19-1 is badass. Van Dame is more legit as a fighter than Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee's only credible fight is when he was in High School in a boxing match I think. Probably just a slugfest as he wasn't even crosstraining back then....just streetfighting and some Wang Chung. And Segal is just a gigantic lardass.
If you don't know the origins of the arts, then you don't really know what's being taught. You apply these very crude distinctions (JKD, hiya! Karate, hiya! Judo Chop! Hiya!) when most of the fighting methods we see today are not purely Judo or purely Jiu-jitsu or purely Wing Chun. They're often adapted mixtures of various arts.
The fact that you called Wing Chun "silly stuff" tells me about everything I need to know about your knowledge of martial arts.
Oh really? So the origin of a straight right affects it's effectiveness as a technique?
And adpated mixtures , that's a Red Herring , since of course folks have been stealing others moves since man first slapped each other.
And guess what 'Wing Chun , Ving Tsun , whichever permutation pretty much IS " silly bull**** " , due to the way it's taught nowadays , note that last........
Oh really? So the origin of a straight right affects it's effectiveness as a technique?
Is that what I said?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoninAmok
And adpated mixtures , that's a Red Herring , since of course folks have been stealing others moves since man first slapped each other.
It's not a red herring. I simply asked rigas how he knew what he was learning. There are certain technqiues (pak sao, biu sao, etc.) that can be identified with a specific art.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoninAmok
And guess what 'Wing Chun , Ving Tsun , whichever permutation pretty much IS " silly bull**** " , due to the way it's taught nowadays , note that last........
Says someone who has clearly never practiced Wing Chun and clearly is not a practicioner of the martial arts.
so what you're saying is if a person doesnt know the origins of a technique then they can not properly utilize said technique in a self defense/combat situation? that is one of the most ridiculous statements i have ever read.
Actually, it is one of the most ridiculous statements that you've ever typed. Try not to put words in my mouth. K? Thanks.
Just curious...what is your background in martial arts?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
