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Hey dude, I am originally from Long Island. I was born in NYC, and raised out east. I absolutely hated it, although I had no idea why. I left there when I was 19 and free to leave my parent's house. I am 31. I settled in Bozeman permanently when I was 26, but have been in the area since 2001. In those 11 years, I have seen the Gallatin Valley get amazingly crowded. Cities are merging, and mountain sides are being subdivided, even still in a recession. I have traveled to 49 US states, and 5 Canadian Provinces. I lived in 3 continents, and 6 countries (seasonal work). This is the place for me. My wife and I met in Yellowstone National Park, waiting tables at Lake Hotel, and we followed a large group of displaced employees into Bozeman, to get jobs and see what was available. We didn't have much intention of staying. Anyway... We found plenty of manual labor, which is good for a young guy, and my wife found work in a dental clinic in town. We did pretty well for ourselves here, and even went back to school for engineering degrees. I have remodeled homes here, and now see myself as a local, and a part of my community.
To answer some of your questions, there is a welding program at MSU, but I have no idea what sort of certification you get from it. There are consistently about 100+ jobs in the classifieds, so if you need to get on your feet when you arrive, it's possible. We did it. When we arrived in town we were homeless, and now we're looking at building our home on some land in the mountains. I do feel as if I have aged 20 years in those 10 though. I did work up in Yellowstone Club, most subdivisions in Big Sky, and all over southwest Montana from Wise River to Billings.
People complain about the rich people here, the traffic, the "way it used to be"... I don't get it. I still find Montanans to be good people, kind, and generally want to stay out of your way. Things change, and when I visit my neighborhood where I grew up in NY, I see that has changed as well. I do think it is crowded here, but the whole world has a population problem, and at least we can still find a lone ridgeline to spend an afternoon without seeing another person.
It's good you like the outdoors, otherwise you might as well move on to another state. That's about the only thing the liberals and the conservatives have in common. The outdoors... That is what I was missing as a child. Now, as a new father, I take my little baby daughter into the mountains any chance I get. If I sound romantic about this whole thing, it's because Montana has given me the best years of my life, even though it was hell getting started.
Location: Approximately 50 miles from Missoula MT/38 yrs full time after 4 yrs part time
2,308 posts, read 4,123,568 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael11747
Hey dude, I am originally from Long Island. I was born in NYC, and raised out east. I absolutely hated it, although I had no idea why. I left there when I was 19 and free to leave my parent's house. I am 31. I settled in Bozeman permanently when I was 26, but have been in the area since 2001. In those 11 years, I have seen the Gallatin Valley get amazingly crowded. Cities are merging, and mountain sides are being subdivided, even still in a recession. I have traveled to 49 US states, and 5 Canadian Provinces. I lived in 3 continents, and 6 countries (seasonal work). This is the place for me. My wife and I met in Yellowstone National Park, waiting tables at Lake Hotel, and we followed a large group of displaced employees into Bozeman, to get jobs and see what was available. We didn't have much intention of staying. Anyway... We found plenty of manual labor, which is good for a young guy, and my wife found work in a dental clinic in town. We did pretty well for ourselves here, and even went back to school for engineering degrees. I have remodeled homes here, and now see myself as a local, and a part of my community.
To answer some of your questions, there is a welding program at MSU, but I have no idea what sort of certification you get from it. There are consistently about 100+ jobs in the classifieds, so if you need to get on your feet when you arrive, it's possible. We did it. When we arrived in town we were homeless, and now we're looking at building our home on some land in the mountains. I do feel as if I have aged 20 years in those 10 though. I did work up in Yellowstone Club, most subdivisions in Big Sky, and all over southwest Montana from Wise River to Billings.
>>>>>People complain about the rich people here, the traffic, the "way it used to be"... I don't get it. <<<<<
I still find Montanans to be good people, kind, and generally want to stay out of your way. Things change, and when I visit my neighborhood where I grew up in NY, I see that has changed as well. I do think it is crowded here, but the whole world has a population problem, and at least we can still find a lone ridgeline to spend an afternoon without seeing another person.
It's good you like the outdoors, otherwise you might as well move on to another state. That's about the only thing the liberals and the conservatives have in common. The outdoors... That is what I was missing as a child. Now, as a new father, I take my little baby daughter into the mountains any chance I get. If I sound romantic about this whole thing, it's because Montana has given me the best years of my life, even though it was hell getting started.
..Just a couple of comments:
First of all, I compliment you on being able to transition from being a native New Yorker to "life in Montana".
I've been here long enough to say: "IMHO, only about 10 % of transplants from NY & NYC end up being as satisfied as you are.
I also am happy for you in that you "are a new father" and are introducing her to "The Outdoors" at a very young age........."Best course of action you could take with her"...................... My daughter is 57 and is an outdoor enthusiast: Mountain Bikes; Hikes in the Mountains; (spent this last week-end at one of the (de-commissioned) Forest Service Look-outs" for a "get-away-weekend" with two other school teachers); Runs two miles every morning; Skis; Snow Shoes; Rides horses English & Western; Shoots Pistol, Rifle & Shotgun; fishes; does Mountain Photography and in general takes advantage of all that Montana has to offer.....
And I humbly take some credit for this variety of interests because by age 3 she was on horse back, by 5 she loved to fish; by 7 she was skiing and by 10 she was shooting.........(When you can't have a son.....you kinda enjoy "molding" your daughter into a sweet little girl that is in fact,.......about half "Tom-Boy".)
The only "issue" I have with your post is the sentence ending with:....."I don't get it".
You have (5) years "under-your belt" in Bozeman and approx another 6 partial years in the area............thus your impressions and opinions are based on what you have observed and experienced since approx mid 2000.
If you has been blessed with the opportunity to live in Montana and/or the Bozeman area since, lets say, the early 1970(s).............................you would definitely understand why many "long-time" residents and natives "long for the "WAY IT USED TO BE".
I'm not just talking about today's "modern-way-of-life".....................my impression and memories of "the way-it used-to-be" include such "things as":....cost of land for building a home up in the mountains; neighbor "get-to-gethers" for a BBQ on a summer weekend night; be called by your first name by half the merchants in town, or by the local Banker, or by the local Preacher when you attend Sunday services.
These are the just a fraction of the "things" that many of the "old timers" miss and remember.............
............(Like being able to buy 14 (all useable) acres (half timbered & half native grass) at the end of a private lane in the beginning of the foothills of the Bitterroots, with 500 feet of frontage on a major 40' wide stream that feeds the river and fantastic views of the mountains and loaded with wildlife: deer, elk bear, moose etc, etc and game birds: pheasant, grouse, quail, partridge, ducks and geese..............all this and TOTAL privacy and solitude for $25,000............................Yeah, thats what was available 35 years ago.................Obviously, pieces of property that can be described as this,..........are 95% all bought up and "the pickens-are mighty slim" and very pricey!...
Just my thoughts and opinions..........being in my 81st year, I know "you can't stop so-called progress,......but it sure would be nice "just-slow-it-down-a-little-bit!!
So, again I repeat:..." if your had been living in Montana and/or the Bozeman area for the last 40 years...............believe me......you would get it!!!
The Bozeman I grew up in was a very different place than what it is today.
I too remember going out with my buddies to hunt deer and gophers and fish along the Madison River in an area that is now covered by McMansions and locked down.
I remeber several areas of public and private land that used to be open or open upon asking the landowner that are now shut down or access is closed off.
When I was young I could take my horse and ride as far as I wanted, nobody cared or minded. I shut the gates, didn't tear up the place, didn't damage anything, and when as young as 11 I was able to stay in a line camp all summer by myself, no danger from people, if I was in trouble in fact they would help me.
There are still places like that in Montana, but Bozeman isn't one of them. It was so sad seeing what was happening to my beloved Bozeman, that I had to leave in the early 90's.
The deveopment and houses covering the valley, the concrete and pavement, it was like watching a deeply loved family member sucumbing to a cancer. It is still painful to go through town today, so I avoid it if possible.
For those that came later, they cannot know what a wonderful place it used to be, and I can see how moving from New York, it still seems like heaven on earth, but it is no longer the paradise it once was.
I moved to Bozeman/Belgrade over the winter from the Scranton, PA area and have not regretted my decision. With that said, I don't plan on staying out here for more than a couple years. I took a job at a newly founded country club here which gave me the opportunity to expand upon my job experience back east as well as take a few graduate courses at the university.
Pros
- proximity to Billings, Helena, Butte, Missoula etc
- the scenery/outdoors
- fairly happening Main Street
- Climate similar to that of Northeast PA
- not too big, not too small
- College town (for some)
Cons
-Cost of living/housing shortage, everyone under the age of 35 has at least one or 2 roomies
- the wind, it's always windy and "dusty"
- well paying jobs, where are they?
- distance from large cities
- College Town (for some)
Well when I first arrived here, Durston past 19th was a dirt road. That's about as far back as I can remember. The land was already closed off, and there was McMansions sprouting everywhere. For a young guy, drifting from place to place, this was an awesome spot to make money. I'm sure you all know the story... After I left home at 18, I just forgot about NY honestly. I knew I wasn't happy, and left at the first chance I had. Montana was the only place I kept coming back to, and I wasn;t even sure I wanted to live here, until my third winter.
This is happening everywhere in the US worth living. I have worked seasonal jobs from Healy, Alaska, to Key Largo, FL, and all of the open spaces are being occupied. They are mostly not even full time residents. In Alaska, it's even more enticing to go out and build a cabin on 40 acres, and then have the government sell it to you for a decent price.
I see what everyone is saying about Bozeman. And to most extents I agree. We are looking to move out of town ourselves because I just can't handle driving around in town, or walking around down town anymore. I used to be able to handle crowds, but now I'd rather not.
My point was this: How could you ever go back to those days? I don't know about you, but the best solution we could come up with is to live next to forest land, outside of a subdivision. I wish Montana was still like that, it sounds idyllic.
I was also referring to the way people dress when I said "I don't get it." I was trying to say that everyone likes to look good and decks themselves out. I see so many cowboys with shiny pocket watches, just like I see so many suburban moms decked out in bling and Mountain Hardware jackets. It's a pretty universal thing I think.
Next topic: My daughter. She loves the outdoors so much I worry a little. We put her in her Kelty pack, and she shakes it out of excitement, and kicks me like I'm her horse. I love it! Anyway, I could talk about her forever. We had her out on the trails at 2 days old in town, and took her up into the Bridgers at 2 weeks. Now she just sits around on a blanket, occupying herself with pine cones, sticks, and rocks while we berry pick and generally keeps watch over the chipmunks who try to steal our food. I'm very thankful we can be here to have her grow up in the mountains.
Here's me and the monkey girl when she was a month old up on Ross Pass (it was pretty windy):
The Bozeman I grew up in was a very different place than what it is today.
I too remember going out with my buddies to hunt deer and gophers and fish along the Madison River in an area that is now covered by McMansions and locked down.
I remeber several areas of public and private land that used to be open or open upon asking the landowner that are now shut down or access is closed off.
When I was young I could take my horse and ride as far as I wanted, nobody cared or minded. I shut the gates, didn't tear up the place, didn't damage anything, and when as young as 11 I was able to stay in a line camp all summer by myself, no danger from people, if I was in trouble in fact they would help me.
There are still places like that in Montana, but Bozeman isn't one of them. It was so sad seeing what was happening to my beloved Bozeman, that I had to leave in the early 90's. The deveopment and houses covering the valley, the concrete and pavement, it was like watching a deeply loved family member sucumbing to a cancer. It is still painful to go through town today, so I avoid it if possible.
For those that came later, they cannot know what a wonderful place it used to be, and I can see how moving from New York, it still seems like heaven on earth, but it is no longer the paradise it once was.
MTSilvertip, where are these places of which you speak? That is what we are looking for! I fear that they will be far from the places we are able to locate, though....
MTSilvertip, where are these places of which you speak? That is what we are looking for! I fear that they will be far from the places we are able to locate, though....
You are correct, most of those places are far from the more populated areas in Montana. There are large areas of the eastern side of the divide where living like I described is still possible, But in those areas there aren't a lot of jobs, very few people, and most are a long way from the glaciated mountain splendors of the western 1/3rd of the state.
In some of those areas you can drive for 50 or 100 miles without seeing another vehicle, or sit on the side of the road and only see 2 or 3 cars a week besides the mailman pass by.
Farms and ranch buldings may be seperated by several miles, there may not be cell service, in fact, I know a couple places that unless you have a satellite radio you can't even pick up a station on your car radio reliably.
You would have to love the isolation, the long views out to where the sky meets the ground at the horizon, open plains and praries, interspersed with badlands where wind and water have carved hoodoos in fantastic otherworldly shapes that seem to come to life in the moonlight.
You would have to enjoy your own company as you could be snowed in for weeks at at time during the winter when you couldn't break through the drifts to get to town, and even if you do, town may only have 20 or 30 full time residents.
It is a fantastic, ancient land, stark and barren, but beautiful beyond compare to those who know it and love it.
But you have to bring your own job or have a pension to live on because there aren't many jobs there and the young folks have had to leave to support their families. The grandparents take care of the grandchildren while the parents drive truck or work the oil patch or fight wars on the other side of the world.
Medical care may be hours away, so you need to learn to take care of yourself.
But it is also a place of traditional values where kids still treat people with respect and may not know what an Ipad is. Where you can help your neighbor, or they will help you.
It is a hard land, it will test the metal of any who venture there, but it will temper the steel in your soul and make you a better person if you can survive it, and learn to thrive there.
Anyway, it isn't very close to where folks want to go in Montana, so it is safe for the moment.
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