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First off, a little background information about me. I am in my late 20's and have been considering making some changes in life. I grew up gardening and throughout high school I began to expand my love of growing things. After high school, I took a couple years off from school and began an online heirloom seed company that I still own, operate, and produce seeds for today. When I began college a few years after establishing the seed company, my parents purchased a small 15 acre parcel of land in SE TN where we are originally from and my brother and I have basically built up a fresh produce farming operation on that land which supplies fresh produce to multiple farmers markets weekly. After several years, we are finally turning a profit from the endeavor and want to continue farming for our lifes work. The plan was to build this farm into a full CSA operation besides selling produce at the area farmers markets and producing seeds for the seed company.
But, our long-term plans have been changing recently and we have begun to look more and more towards Montana as a place that we would like to relocate to. I have some health issues due to the excessive humidity and high pollen levels here in TN and in order to continue in an outdoor occupation, need to relocate eventually. Both I and my brother have associates degrees from our local community college and we would both like to eventually pursue a degree in agriculture at MSU once we can save enough money to attend college again.
To make a long story short, after considering schools all around the country, we both would like to attend Montana State University and pursue degrees in Agriculture: my brother in Equine Studies and range management, and I in Sustainable Crop Production. From what we have seen on a couple of scouting trips through Montana, we would like to eventually relocate to possibly southern Montana and after school, build up a farming/ranching operation. We are both hard workers, prefer cold weather over heat and humidity, don't need modern comforts of life and are comfortable living a more secluded, rural lifestyle. We fully understand that farming is a tough occupation that doesn't pay a fortune and that there will be troubles and hurdles anywhere we go. However, I have some questions that hopefully some Montana natives will hopefully be able to help me with.
After reading many online forums and not finding any answers, my questions are as follows:
Is Montana a state that can offer one the opportunity to develop a fresh produce farming operation? Is there a demand for CSA subscriptions (Community Supported Agriculture), farmers markets, and local restaurant/lodge contracts? Is there a fairly large demand for locally grown foods? Here in Tennessee, local is all the rage now and we have no trouble selling the produce we grow. Is buying local something that is also catching on in MT or are people there really interested in that?
Are there areas of land that are rich enough to produce fresh market vegetables with enough water to sustain production? Are places such as these reasonably priced enough to allow for young farmers to purchase enough land to farm without paying millions just for the land?
My biggest question I guess is whether there is enough local demand for fresh locally grown produce. Any locals who could weigh in on this issue would be much appreciated. Are there local farmers who already run an operation like I am thinking of and if so, from what you have seen, do you think there is enough support from the communities to enable them to make a living?
We are still in the initial planning stages but our initial plans are to buy a small parcel of land close enough to commute to MSU, move to the property and start a VERY small operation: i.e. build a small barn to house horses which my brother trains, build a small seed room to house my heirloom seed operation, and start a small 1-2 acre garden mostly to continue to provide seeds for the seed company. We are familiar with starting from the ground up as we have done this with our farm in TN. We would build only the bare basics for ourselves and then after getting the initial basics built so we could live here OK, we would go to school for 3-4 years to finish our degrees, continuing the small farming/seed company operation for our living expenses. After school, we would really begin to work up a farming operation beginning with greenhouses for hydroponic growing and fields for growing hay (my brother trains horses and wants to continue in that business after school). Depending on the initial land we are able to purchase, we may need to relocate within the state to a larger acreage.
There is one last thing I want to make clear about myself. I am dedicated to farming for my life's work. Due to my health considerations, I need a cooler climate to continue my occupation. My reasons for wanting to move to Montana are not to get away from people, live the "quiet life", or just to enjoy nature. I love nature, enjoy a quiet life, and am comfortable with people or without them. My main reasons for narrowing my search to Montana are 1.) Montana State University has the degree and course offerings that I am looking for to forward my education. 2.) The climate of Montana is good for my health. 3.) Tennessee is becoming so populated that farming areas are becoming less and less available. When I make the move and put the rest of my life into building up a farm & ranch along with my family, I fully intend to stay there my whole life. I want to be able to build up something I can be proud of without fear that condos and shopping malls will be built beside my farm when I am older, well established, and unable to easily relocate and start over again. I am in this for keeps. 4.) I want to settle in a place where I can raise a family some day that will help to instill in my children a love of the land, a love of the wild places, and a love of tradition & culture and hard work.
I apologize for the long post but hope that all the information that I offered will help someone respond to and hopefully answer my questions, and/or share any thoughts, suggestions, ideas or advice in regards to this important step in my life! Thanks for taking the time to read all this... I really appreciate it!
Last edited by farmerjesse; 09-10-2014 at 01:19 AM..
You're going to have a number of issues but not unlike others who are trying to get into farming. The number one issue will be money. If you want to attend MSU-Bozeman and be a farmer, that's not going to happen unless you have a spare 500k laying around. 1) as an out of state resident, you'll pay three times what in state residents do. 2) Ag property in Bozeman is expensive and you'll be paying somewhere between 150k to 200k for the 1-2 acres of land if it doesn't have a house on it. 3) Bozeman's cost of living is one of the most expensive places to live and wages are near the bottom of the scale due to the large number of college students. If you want to farm, Eastern Montana will have better acreages but you'll be further away from Billings. Billings, Bozeman, Missoula all have farm to table restaurants who would be interested in purchasing your produce. Billings will have better access to more affordable plots and is cheaper than the other two. It also has a better climate for farming as the frost and snow arrive later in the year.
If you are going into business for yourself, why are you getting the degree? You grew up in the business so you probably know the majority of the ins and outs of the business. I'm not really certain what people do with Ag degrees, I do know they are useful, but if you want to go work for an Ag company, you'd need the degree. If you just want to farm, I'd recommend farming.
First off, a little background information about me. I am in my late 20's and have been considering making some changes in life. I grew up gardening and throughout high school I began to expand my love of growing things. After high school, I took a couple years off from school and began an online heirloom seed company that I still own, operate, and produce seeds for today. When I began college a few years after establishing the seed company, my parents purchased a small 15 acre parcel of land in SE TN where we are originally from and my brother and I have basically built up a fresh produce farming operation on that land which supplies fresh produce to multiple farmers markets weekly. After several years, we are finally turning a profit from the endeavor and want to continue farming for our lifes work. The plan was to build this farm into a full CSA operation besides selling produce at the area farmers markets and producing seeds for the seed company.
But, our long-term plans have been changing recently and we have begun to look more and more towards Montana as a place that we would like to relocate to. I have some health issues due to the excessive humidity and high pollen levels here in TN and in order to continue in an outdoor occupation, need to relocate eventually. Both I and my brother have associates degrees from our local community college and we would both like to eventually pursue a degree in agriculture at MSU once we can save enough money to attend college again.
To make a long story short, after considering schools all around the country, we both would like to attend Montana State University and pursue degrees in Agriculture: my brother in Equine Studies and range management, and I in Sustainable Crop Production. From what we have seen on a couple of scouting trips through Montana, we would like to eventually relocate to possibly southern Montana and after school, build up a farming/ranching operation. We are both hard workers, prefer cold weather over heat and humidity, don't need modern comforts of life and are comfortable living a more secluded, rural lifestyle. We fully understand that farming is a tough occupation that doesn't pay a fortune and that there will be troubles and hurdles anywhere we go. However, I have some questions that hopefully some Montana natives will hopefully be able to help me with.
After reading many online forums and not finding any answers, my questions are as follows:
Is Montana a state that can offer one the opportunity to develop a fresh produce farming operation? Is there a demand for CSA subscriptions (Community Supported Agriculture), farmers markets, and local restaurant/lodge contracts? Is there a fairly large demand for locally grown foods? Here in Tennessee, local is all the rage now and we have no trouble selling the produce we grow. Is buying local something that is also catching on in MT or are people there really interested in that?
Are there areas of land that are rich enough to produce fresh market vegetables with enough water to sustain production? Are places such as these reasonably priced enough to allow for young farmers to purchase enough land to farm without paying millions just for the land?
My biggest question I guess is whether there is enough local demand for fresh locally grown produce. Any locals who could weigh in on this issue would be much appreciated. Are there local farmers who already run an operation like I am thinking of and if so, from what you have seen, do you think there is enough support from the communities to enable them to make a living?
We are still in the initial planning stages but our initial plans are to buy a small parcel of land close enough to commute to MSU, move to the property and start a VERY small operation: i.e. build a small barn to house horses which my brother trains, build a small seed room to house my heirloom seed operation, and start a small 1-2 acre garden mostly to continue to provide seeds for the seed company. We are familiar with starting from the ground up as we have done this with our farm in TN. We would build only the bare basics for ourselves and then after getting the initial basics built so we could live here OK, we would go to school for 3-4 years to finish our degrees, continuing the small farming/seed company operation for our living expenses. After school, we would really begin to work up a farming operation beginning with greenhouses for hydroponic growing and fields for growing hay (my brother trains horses and wants to continue in that business after school). Depending on the initial land we are able to purchase, we may need to relocate within the state to a larger acreage.
There is one last thing I want to make clear about myself. I am dedicated to farming for my life's work. Due to my health considerations, I need a cooler climate to continue my occupation. My reasons for wanting to move to Montana are not to get away from people, live the "quiet life", or just to enjoy nature. I love nature, enjoy a quiet life, and am comfortable with people or without them. My main reasons for narrowing my search to Montana are 1.) Montana State University has the degree and course offerings that I am looking for to forward my education. 2.) The climate of Montana is good for my health. 3.) Tennessee is becoming so populated that farming areas are becoming less and less available. When I make the move and put the rest of my life into building up a farm & ranch along with my family, I fully intend to stay there my whole life. I want to be able to build up something I can be proud of without fear that condos and shopping malls will be built beside my farm when I am older, well established, and unable to easily relocate and start over again. I am in this for keeps. 4.) I want to settle in a place where I can raise a family some day that will help to instill in my children a love of the land, a love of the wild places, and a love of tradition & culture and hard work.
I apologize for the long post but hope that all the information that I offered will help someone respond to and hopefully answer my questions, and/or share any thoughts, suggestions, ideas or advice in regards to this important step in my life! Thanks for taking the time to read all this... I really appreciate it!
Jesse,
Good luck with your dream. Let me passon an idea you might want to consider. You want to relocate to Montana for a cooler climate well you will be! However maybe you can use the shortage of fresh produce during the chilly Montana months to you advantage.
Many years ago I considered locating a fish farm and greenhouse produce operation near one of the nearby coal/fired power plants in Montana. I never followed through with my plans because other things got in the way. But think about it: Coal fired and Nuclear power plants use water in vast amounts to cool down water heated up during electrical power generation. See if you can located neae one of the many power plants in the area and take advantage of that source of warm water. Montana has plenty of sunshine year round but without warmth . . . . Even if you have to shipp your fresh produce a few hundred miles you would still have the advantage of locally grown produce from October to May. Priced accordingly of course.
Good luck,
GL2
There's certainly a demand for fresh produce, and CSA type operations, but keep in mind that the demand for that is really in the bigger cities or resort towns in the state. Of course that means that you'll be paying top dollar for enough farmland to make the operation financially viable. If you're talking about buying enough land to operate a ranch as well you'd better have some serious cash sitting around if you want it to be near one of those better locations. Alternatively you can get land cheaper in the less inhabited parts of the state, but that will severely limit the demand for your fresh produce. Also keep in mind that you're not the first person with this idea. In Whitefish where I live during the summers for example, the local farmers market probably has close to a dozen produce stands already, and many of them do some sort of CSA or direct sales to consumers.
Do some number crunching, look for available farmland (actual farmland, not wooded, mountainous land) on places like realtor.com and such near some of those cities and compare it to how the numbers work for you currently in Tennessee. I suspect the math is going to be a lot tougher if you come out and have to set up your own thing rather than your current situation where your parents bought the land for you.
Not trying to kill your dream or anything, but be sure you really run the numbers on this before you get too invested in it.
A few years back I was sitting in a local watering hole, when a guy came in carrying a bushell basket full of fresh veggies local!y grown here in Wyoming. It was February. He wanted us to try them. He had corn, squash, peas, beets, etc.... The bartender produced a knife and we cut some up. No taste. You could identify the veggie, but they were just bland. How did he grow fresh veggies in February?
Oil wells have a stack gas burn off pipe for the natural gas produced from pumping the oil. He had got permission to build a greenhouse next to an oil well and then tapped into the stack gas burn off pipe to heat the greenhouse. The problem was no taste so all I can figure is he didn't have the smarts to put the proper nutrients into the dirt he was using. I would think with an ag degree, he might. have had the knowledge to put those nutrients back and be able to produce vegetables that had taste, and be able to provide fresh veggies to the local restaurants 365 days a year. He got the heat for the greenhouse for free.
Jesse, Go east young Man and/or Woman!! Look at the rural areas around and just north of Billings for land potential. Draw a rough triangle on the map with Lewistown, Roundup and Grass Range as the 3 corners. Look in that area for land. There is a family owned wholesale greenhouse out near Grass Range. They would be good people to get in touch with. Oh, make sure you buy land with WATER RIGHTS. Way different from Tennessee!! (I used to live in Mountain City, TN!)
Also, look at your growing season for the zone. You will be wise to go into greenhouse production. Hydroponics is becoming more popular these days. There is also another soil system that is really catching on like wildfire! Check out this FB group: Rain Gutter Grow System Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/144745362329424/ I've been watching them all summer and the ones who do it right are harvesting more than they can use. Would work GREAT in a greenhouse environment!
Move here and establish residency before you start school. The savings will be worth it!
Best Wishes!! Keep us posted!!
Tracey
Last edited by hymnsinger; 09-11-2014 at 12:04 AM..
Reason: Is Jesse a guy or a girl? :-)
flyingcat2k, to answer your question, I would like to get the degree first and foremost because I want to learn. Even being in the agriculture business most of my life, there are many things I don't know about managing and growing a business. Most of what I know I have taught myself and learned from reading books. Secondly, I would someday like to teach Agriculture at a college to help others learn and to provide an additional income besides the farm. So, thats basically why I want the degree. I would never attend MSU - Bozeman as an out-of-state student. I, nor my family are very rich and we just don't have those kind of funds. I will definitely be moving to the state first and establishing my residency there so as to attend college as an in-state student!
The other thing I am wondering about is the prices you quoted for land. Looking at realtor pages online, I am seeing good irrigated crop land near Bozeman for around $1,500 - $2,500 an acre. There are quite a few 10-50 acre plots in this price range that would work perfect for a beginning farm operation. Plus there are lots of leasing possibilities that I have seen which would be beneficial just starting out. So, I'm not sure where you are coming up with numbers of $100 - $200k for 1-2 acres without a home. Are the listings I am seeing fairy tales and I am way off on my accounting? I have been doing research on land prices in Montana for over 2 years and thats one thing that has encouraged me to consider relocating. Here in TN, near the cities, farm land is going for $18-$30k an acre and that just isn't doable for us!
Gunluvver2 and ElkHunter, thanks for the suggestions. Heating options for greenhouses is just another reason why I want to attend college and learn more about agriculture. Although I am fairly knowledgeable about field grown crops, I am new to greenhouse grown crops, hydroponics, and the like. One of my learning goals is how to grow produce for as many months as possible throughout the year (and have veggies with FLAVOR as well!) :-)
FL2MT, thanks for the advice and the insight on locally grown foods. We are used to tough competition at local markets here in TN. On any given market day, there can be 20-30 farms present which can generate some fierce competition at times. My biggest concern was how the majority of the population feels about supporting local farmers. Here, it is a major deal with sometimes 10,000 people turning up each weekend at some of the bigger farmers markets in our region. I didn't know if there is enough local interest there to sustain more farmers. Sometimes local food fads can be VERY localized! I would hate to jump from a good situation with promise to a bad one with little or no promise.
The ranch idea is understandably a far range plan that will take lots of time and effort to reach. We were thinking something like a combined operation ranch/produce farm since my brother and I work well together and are very close. That is not a short-range goal though, rather something to think about in the long term.
You are correct that things will be tougher for us to start out on our own. We have the equipment from our current farm so that will see us through for equipment for awhile anyways. I'm not even thinking about a nice house or anything to start with. Just something to exist in until we can get our feet on the ground. I'm seeing crop land in Southern Montana around $2000 an acre like I mentioned before, so I am hoping that with savings from our current farming operation, we can at least pay for a small parcel of land to start something on. Then, in a year or so, when we begin college, hopefully the farm can be to a point that it will pay for at least our living expenses until we can get through school. Then, the real work begins. I'm not against the idea of moving to a more remote location after school as long as I am within a couple hours driving time to a town large enough to sell produce. A lot of my sales will most likely be online anyway since the seed company is a large part of our farming operation. And, there is always a need for seed garlic! That can be sold and shipped all over the US. So, rural acreage is a possibility after school!
Jesse, Go east young Man! Look at the rural areas around and just north of Billings for land potential. Draw a rough triangle on the map with Lewistown, Roundup and Grass Range as the 3 corners. Look in that area for land. There is a family owned wholesale greenhouse out near Grass Range. They would be good people to get in touch with. Oh, make sure you buy land with WATER RIGHTS. Way different from Tennessee!! (I used to live in Mountain City, TN!)
Also, look at your growing season for the zone. You will be wise to go into greenhouse production. Hydroponics is becoming more popular these days. There is also another soil system that is really catching on like wildfire! Check out this FB group: Rain Gutter Grow System Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/144745362329424/ I've been watching them all summer and the ones who do it right are harvesting more than they can use. Would work GREAT in a greenhouse environment!
Move here and establish residency before you start school. The savings will be worth it!
Best Wishes!! Keep us posted!!
Tracey
Thank you for the advice! I will definitely establish residency in the state BEFORE starting school! I can't afford out-of-state tuition fees! That is one reason why I want to go ahead and start something, albeit a small operation, close to Bozeman. The cost-of-living might be high, and I don't care for cities too much but since I have to live there for a year before starting school, I might as well be doing what I know how to do: grow crops! I probably would stick with field-grown crops while in school though and save the greenhouse operation for after school. They can be expensive to build and start-up. I just need something to help pay the bills while in school and farming sounds like the best option to me! After school, if land is worth what they say it is around Bozeman, I can sell the land when I finish school and save all the $$$ that renting for 4-5 years would cost me. Besides, my brother has horses that he will not part with and finding a place to rent that allows horses would be difficult and cost prohibitive for us!
I do like the area around Billings quite a lot. I've been through there several times looking at land. Although I do love the mountains, they don't HAVE to be in my back yard. I know water rights are important. Instead of having too little water, Tennessee usually has the opposite problem which is something we have been fighting now for several years at our farm. We bought it in a valley during a decade of drought and now that the drought is over, we keep having problems with flooding. We lost 80% of our crops in 2012 but thankfully the last couple of years haven't been quite so disastrous for us!
While I am in school, I will definitely be visiting and contacting all types of farms around the state to learn the best types of crop production and the best places for it. Moving from TN to MT is a huge leap for me and all of the unknowns get me worried sometimes. I have farmed in the southeast all my life and don't know much about northwest farming. As you can probably tell, I am a planner, a perfectionist, and a very cautious person. Meeting and learning from local farmers I hope will help me get a handle on the things I need to know to be successful in a new locality.
I will definitely keep everyone posted. The next few months will be spent crunching numbers, making plans, and considering all of the possible options available. I value everyone's input and will consider all of the issues carefully. Thanks again for your comments!
P.S. To answer your question, I'm a girl! I know the name can kinda throw you. I really should change the spelling to Jessie I guess! :-)
I suggest you look at two year Ag Business degrees from Casper College in Wyoming. Most of it can be done online and is significantly cheaper than doing all four years at MSU.
The best farm conditions (soils, climate, growing season, irrigation) in Montana are in Billings area. There are other sweet spots with micro climates in the state, but it takes patience to find them. The main wild card to look at is elevation--you want to be lower than 3000feet.
The prices you are finding are not least bit accurate for good farm land. We own a ranch so I can speak to Ag prices. Nothing but scrub land is every sold (in less than 3 or 4 sections) for $1,000-2,000 an acre in Montana. A section is 640 acres.
For example, I know people in Billings area who own about 80 acres or so of irrigated cropland they inherited and now lease to sugar beet growers for retirement income. I know they routinely turn down realtor offers of $20,000 to $30,000 an acre.
That said, heirloom seed production is an interesting niche market with serious internet sales potential.
Last edited by historyfan; 09-11-2014 at 08:02 AM..
Reason: sloppiness
I suggest you look at two year Ag Business degrees from Casper College in Wyoming. Most of it can be done online and is significantly cheaper than doing all four years at MSU.
The best farm conditions (soils, climate, growing season, irrigation) in Montana are in Billings area. There are other sweet spots with micro climates in the state, but it takes patience to find them. The main wild card to look at is elevation--you want to be lower than 3000feet.
The prices you are finding are not least bit accurate for good farm land. We own a ranch so I can speak to Ag prices. Nothing but scrub land is every sold (in less than 3 or 4 sections) for $1,000-2,000 an acre in Montana. A section is 640 acres.
For example, I know people in Billings area who own about 80 acres or so of irrigated cropland they inherited and now lease to sugar beet growers for retirement income. I know they routinely turn down realtor offers of $20,000 to $30,000 an acre.
That said, heirloom seed production is an interesting niche market with serious internet sales potential.
Wow! Thanks for the insights. That is definitely different than our situation in Tennessee. I did see a few listings around the Bozeman area that are currently planted in crops priced for $19,000 for 10 acres. But, apparently this is the exception and not the rule. I guess the problem for me would be that to run a produce AND seed production operation, I would never need an entire section of land. And priced like you are saying, I could never even begin to afford it unless the government has some major grants available to new farmers!!! Now, eventually, my brother wants to operate a ranch so that would be an option for him someday. But, for crops, especially fresh market crops, you don't generally need that much land. We don't have a problem with that here. Instead, we don't have enough land. There are lots of prime farming lands being sold here in any increment from 1 - 1000 acres. Its not hard to find, just pricey due to all the boom in housing lately.
So, based on your experience, is there even a possibility for one to start a farm like I have described in Montana and eventually turn a profit? I would even say I'm interested in Wyoming but the water issues there are major for farmers according to some friends who live there. My eventual plans would be for greenhouse hydroponics, field crops for fresh market, seed production, and definitely a seed garlic production element added to the farm. All this would be EASILY housed on 100 good acres, and possibly less. We are currently doing all of this except the greenhouses on 15 acres. 50 acres would give me plenty of room for expansion! At the prices for land you mentioned, it would take years to pay off 100 acres, much less thousands of acres. Is it even possible in Montana? I have seen the big ranches for sale but at a farmers income, I would never even have the credit to borrow money to purchase some of those ranches for the millions they are asking! In your opinion, are there other nearby states that would be easier to purchase smaller parcels of cropland for a more reasonable price?
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I know water rights are important. Instead of having too little water, Tennessee usually has the opposite problem which is something we have been fighting now for several years at our farm. We bought it in a valley during a decade of drought and now that the drought is over, we keep having problems with flooding. We lost 80% of our crops in 2012 but thankfully the last couple of years haven't been quite so disastrous for us! 
