From Chicago to Montana (Billings, Missoula: rental, home equity, house)

[mjstef]

Originally Posted by Redraven

It is apparent that some people made poor career choices. I know diesel mechanics, aircraft mechanics, plumbers, nurses, etc. that work 40 hours per week and have plenty of money to make camping/fishing trips on their days off. Some of them work less than 40 hours, or 4 ten hour days to increase their time off. Some even have fairly large savings accounts.
Yes, there ARE jobs in Montana (just like everywhere else) that one can make a good living doing. No, you won't get rich working for wages or salaries, but you CAN live comfortably.
I have one son who would love to "return home", but he works in IT, and the pay level here just doesn't compare with what he makes where he is, and the cost of living is about the same. So, there he stays!
I spent 40 years with wrenches in my hands, and made a good living in Montana and Wyoming. I held a Journeyman Card from the IAM&AW, and had an A&P license. I got my "diploma" from a Master Automotive and Diesel correspondence course from National Technical Schools, paid for by the VA. I got my A&P license based on military and civilian experience.
There are a lot of people in Montana living quite well on 40 hours per week. Yes, there are also quite a few with two wage earners in the household in order to make the money they want (just like you will find everywhere).
As with any locale, one needs a marketable skill to find a good job. If an employer finds you have value, you will get good pay.
Welcome to Montana. Good luck.

As a heavy equipment operator and foreman in Helena, Big Sky and later Kalispell i was topping out at $22-$24 an hour without benefits. I usually had at least 3 months off in the winter. Our lease on a decent house out of town was $1,500, (Mortgage and taxes would have been 2K plus.) Car insurance was RIDICULOUS. I then started doing property maintenance and repairs & remodeling for myself and made great money but it never was enough. Just my business insurance with vehicles and equipment was over 7.5K a year. (Flathead valley has a terrible theft problem) Mandatory UI for corporate officers with no way to get an exemption in Montana was another 3.5K wasted a year. Then come the miles traveled for work. I was averaging 60K miles on the road a year. Meanwhile people balked at me billing $40 an hour for maintenance and repairs because Joe blow down the street would do the work for beer money. Where i did make money is bush hogging in the summer. $50 -$75 an acre and could cover 2-3 acres an hour.

To put it in perspective i bought a 12 yr old 4 bed 3 full bath here in Northern Wisconsin, 2 living rooms and 2 bonus rooms in the basement on 5 wooded acres with a 30x40 pole barn and a 3 car detached garage 10 miles from town for $195K fully furnished. (comp in the Flathead would be pushing 500K) Total mortgage with taxes and insurance is just under $1,000 a month. I pay $2,600 here in Wisconsin for the exact same business insurance policy, (theft is unheard of in these parts) I'm exempt from UI insurance which saves me $3,500 a year and i barely put on 20K miles a year on my 2 business vehicles because all the work i need is within 10 miles on a 10,000 acre 10 lake chain of mostly vacation homes and get this, My main county i work in is 1/4 the population of the Flathead. I bill out at $45 to $55 an hour without issue. Next goal here are a few vacation rentals. I can pick up a nice 3 bed 2 bath on a couple acres on the water for around 300K and get 2-3K a week as an AirBNB or VRBO. 300K MIGHT get you a bare lot on Flathead lake lol.

I wanted more than to just get by in Montana. I could have "survived" but never retired......

[NDak15]

Originally Posted by mjstef

I wanted more than to just get by in Montana. I could have "survived" but never retired......

This is accurate no matter where you live. Getting by might be fun when you are just out of college but after a while I think even most sane people will agree it gets old. To the OP, this is not to say that you are doomed to just get by in Montana. Just make sure you don't have the rose-colored glasses on when you check the state out.

[MTSilvertip]

I retired last year, 8 years early. I bought a small 160 acre ranch to retire on.
My vehicles are paid off, I am completely off grid with solar power.

I've worked and lived in Montana all my life except for my 8 years in the US Navy.

I just never focused exclusively on how much money or toys I had. I worked at my job for 28 years. I invested, lived in a modest 2 bedroom home, I didn't need to travel internationally or take expensive vacations each year, but I could afford to hunt and fish in other states.

I just lived within my means, saved my pennies, I did fine. Of course I wasn't only looking at how big my paycheck was to make sure I was rich, money isn't a big deal to me. Quality of life is and that's what Montana has in spades.

I could have moved out of state and got a high paying job if money was all that mattered to me, and I'm glad those that have left have found the money that makes them happy. Not sure why they haunt the Montana boards if they hated living here so much and left. You'd think they'd be happy with their money in a new state and would be on those boards instead.

I'm where I want to be doing what I want to do. I don't have to obsess about my bank account or live somewhere I don't want to be.

I'm happy here, and in the end isn't that what's important?

[mjstef]

Originally Posted by MTSilvertip

I retired last year, 8 years early. I bought a small 160 acre ranch to retire on.
My vehicles are paid off, I am completely off grid with solar power.

I've worked and lived in Montana all my life except for my 8 years in the US Navy.

I just never focused exclusively on how much money or toys I had. I worked at my job for 28 years. I invested, lived in a modest 2 bedroom home, I didn't need to travel internationally or take expensive vacations each year, but I could afford to hunt and fish in other states.

I just lived within my means, saved my pennies, I did fine. Of course I wasn't only looking at how big my paycheck was to make sure I was rich, money isn't a big deal to me. Quality of life is and that's what Montana has in spades.

I could have moved out of state and got a high paying job if money was all that mattered to me, and I'm glad those that have left have found the money that makes them happy. Not sure why they haunt the Montana boards if they hated living here so much and left. You'd think they'd be happy with their money in a new state and would be on those boards instead.

I'm where I want to be doing what I want to do. I don't have to obsess about my bank account or live somewhere I don't want to be.

I'm happy here, and in the end isn't that what's important?

Try that nowadays with property values the way they are. If i would have bought in my 1st go around in Montana in 1989 i would be living the dream. Property values are up at least 5X what they where in 89 and MUCH more in areas like Helena, Missoula Bozeman and Kalispell.

https://missoulacurrent.com/business...a-home-prices/

[mjstef]

In Montana, 23 percent of personal income comes from dividends, interest and rent, which is the third-highest among all states and higher than the national average of 19 percent. Missoula, Gallatin and Flathead counties join 27 other Montana counties in ranking in the top 10 percent among all U.S. counties in the share of personal income from those sources.



The share of income from non-wage sources grew from 31 percent in 1990 to 36 percent in 2015, according to the IRS. In Missoula County, more than 40 percent of the total adjusted gross income comes from non-wage sources. That ranks in the top 10 percent nationwide.



That means that Montana’s housing market is affected by people who aren’t constrained by the relatively low wages there.

[MTSilvertip]

Originally Posted by mjstef

Try that nowadays with property values the way they are. If i would have bought in my 1st go around in Montana in 1989 i would be living the dream. Property values are up at least 5X what they where in 89 and MUCH more in areas like Helena, Missoula Bozeman and Kalispell.

https://missoulacurrent.com/business...a-home-prices/

I bought my ranch in 2019 when I retired last year.
I lived in Bozeman all through my growing up years and didn't leave until 1993, when I moved to Helena where I bought my house in 1996 and lived for 30 years until I retired last year.

Not any harder than anyplace else.

Investments are for making money, why else do it? Yeah it takes some discipline, yeah you have to forgo a new vehicle every year, no new boats or ATVs and snowmobiles, no new campers, no international vacations every other year, but it pays big dividends in the long run.

As an aside, I'd NEVER live in Missoula.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by mjstef

In Montana, 23 percent of personal income comes from dividends, interest and rent, which is the third-highest among all states and higher than the national average of 19 percent. Missoula, Gallatin and Flathead counties join 27 other Montana counties in ranking in the top 10 percent among all U.S. counties in the share of personal income from those sources.

I'd like to know what proportion of that comes from self-storage outfits and trailer courts, which both seem rather more prevalent in Montana than elsewhere. (Perhaps in part because our trailer courts haven't yet been regulated out of existence, as they have been in some states... bye-bye one avenue of affordable housing.) One of the more-clever business arrangements I've seen was a self-storage facility right on the same grounds as a large trailer court that caters to singlewides.

[pnwguy2]

Here is the deal about Montana. Probably the most independent state in the country. Most don’t describe themselves as republicans or democrats, though they will generally lean one direction.

There are no big cities in Montana but Billings is the largest though it’s metro population is only a little over 100k.

It is a huge state geographically (number 4 by size).

Very neutral politically. Very independent. Very much the lower 48’s last frontier.

[NDak15]

Originally Posted by pnwguy2

Here is the deal about Montana. Probably the most independent state in the country. Most don’t describe themselves as republicans or democrats, though they will generally lean one direction.

There are no big cities in Montana but Billings is the largest though it’s metro population is only a little over 100k.

It is a huge state geographically (number 4 by size).

Very neutral politically. Very independent. Very much the lower 48’s last frontier.

My experience is that it's not neutral politically but in fact quite red. Or at least the Republicans are much more vocal. Not to say places like Missoula don't have some loud liberals. By the way, has anyone noticed the OP hasn't been back?

[pnwguy2]

Could be, my point Montanans tend to vote independently and are not always aligned party wise.

2008 was quite close between McCain and Obama, as was Dole over Clinton in ‘96. Clinton actually won over Bush in ‘92.