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Unread 11-09-2009, 07:26 PM
 
846 posts, read 732,366 times
Reputation: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by organick View Post

Private insurance has a 30% overhead, medicare has about 3%.

The idea of interstate commerce is useless. The whole industry is dominated by a few companies already and they own "small companies" in different states. The free market does not work, it has had its opportunity to work for health care since the 60's.

.

Private insurance denies 3% of all medical claims. Medicare denies 6%.

We haven't had a free market system in healthcare since the 1960s. Thats when the feds starting getting involved in helathcare. It is also when prices starting going up.

 
Unread 11-09-2009, 07:30 PM
 
846 posts, read 732,366 times
Reputation: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by organick View Post

Yes you will argue that its not a total free market but it certainly is not controlled.
Yes it is controlled. The feds determine the number of doctors we have. The price of drugs. The cost of procedures.

Go to Thailand. It is a completely free market system. It is cheaper than the U.S. And the doctors trained at U.S. med schools.

Many Americans are now flying to Thailand, have whatever procedure they need done and fly back to the U.S.

All free market and all cheaper than done in the United States or any govet run system.
 
Unread 11-09-2009, 09:45 PM
 
Location: NW Montana
6,259 posts, read 7,706,954 times
Reputation: 3307
Well...
not sure I want to go to a country with the many vices of Thailand.
I am more concerned about health workers bailing out of an already stressful job when the salaries start falling....
 
Unread 11-09-2009, 10:19 PM
 
433 posts, read 47,277 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Greenspan View Post
With gov't mandated coverages and prohibitions on selling medical insurance across state lines, it is far from a free market.

Would you want to live in gov't housing, buy your clothes in a gov't clothing store or eat all your meals in a gov't cafeteria? I don't think so.

The more important the service or goods, the more important it is to get the gov't out of the way and let the free market supply these important services and goods.

I think it is well documented that insurance companies do sell across state lines. The few big companies own the majority of the small ones and operate in many different states. Interstate sales would just further monopolize the industry.

Big bus. cannot be trusted to take care of the American public. I think they have shown that.

Have you bought any electronics made in america lately?

American car parts are made in Mexico.

Our jobs are all outsourced overseas.

Before the complaints about unions etc come along. The idea that we should lower our wages to compete with countries that employee child labor and forced labor is unacceptable on so many different American levels. The bottom line is money and they will screw us to make a dime and that does not matter if it is Medical care or jobs.
 
Unread 11-09-2009, 10:21 PM
 
433 posts, read 47,277 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf232 View Post
You can't trust the government to look out for the good of all of us. Look at the stimulus. A trillion bucks to bail out the bastards that were causing the problems in the first place... I say they should have split up that trillion bucks and divided up and passed it to all the head of household taxpayers.. People would have been paying off debts, buying cars, and purchasing property. Of course the pricks that live off of the back of others disagree... For example what good would it be for a credit card company to not keep people paying constant monthly payments?.. These people didn't want to be paid off because it drops their interest incomes..

If I had my way we would completely destroy the corporate structure and go back to mom and pop shops, grocers buying from local farms, products made locally instead of buying from huge overseas outfits that don't even pay the workers a living wage etc.. and businesses that MAKE something instead of a million middlemen trying to make money off of someone else's labors. We need to simplify things and not let the Wal-Marts and Costco's price everyone else out of the market.

Small business is what kept this country great, and we need to take a step back and get things closer to home once again..

end of rant


I entirely agree with you. Huge corporations put family businesses out all the time. However I don't see an option for small family insurance companies.
 
Unread 11-09-2009, 10:49 PM
 
433 posts, read 47,277 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthPoleMarathoner View Post
Private insurance denies 3% of all medical claims. Medicare denies 6%.

We haven't had a free market system in healthcare since the 1960s. Thats when the feds starting getting involved in helathcare. It is also when prices starting going up.

From the california nurses association

Claims denial rates by leading California insurers, first six months of 2009:
  • PacifiCare -- 39.6 percent
  • Cigna -- 32.7 percent
  • HealthNet -- 30 percent
  • Kaiser Permanente -- 28.3 percent
  • Blue Cross -- 27.9 percent
  • Aetna -- 6.4 percent


and yes I have seen the study you are citing. Fact is that both groups have a vested interest in the health care reform debate. On opposite sides obviously.

Hasn't the free market done well with other things oh it has not helped
 
Unread 11-09-2009, 10:51 PM
 
433 posts, read 47,277 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by seven of nine View Post
Well...
not sure I want to go to a country with the many vices of Thailand.
I am more concerned about health workers bailing out of an already stressful job when the salaries start falling....

Yeah Europe is pretty rough too.


Salaries would not drop, the overall cost will be less not more so there is no reason to believe salaries will drop. Other countries spend much less for better care.
 
Unread 11-10-2009, 09:22 AM
 
369 posts, read 879,397 times
Reputation: 243
Organik believes:
Quote:
Have you researched other countries with single payer? No I don't think it will be free. I know it would be cheaper, cover EVERYONE for everything, not just those with money.
Have you noticed that those in single payer countries with money or with no chance for care because a particular treatment is rationed, come to the United States for treatment? Women over a certain age in Great Britain are denied life-saving drugs for breast cancer because it's too expensive; Alberta women frequently come to Montana for child birth because there are not enough beds available. You want shoddy care, go for it big guy; you are about to get what you ask for!
 
Unread 11-10-2009, 09:37 AM
 
2,087 posts, read 420,668 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzfan View Post
Organik believes:

Have you noticed that those in single payer countries with money or with no chance for care because a particular treatment is rationed, come to the United States for treatment? Women over a certain age in Great Britain are denied life-saving drugs for breast cancer because it's too expensive; Alberta women frequently come to Montana for child birth because there are not enough beds available. You want shoddy care, go for it big guy; you are about to get what you ask for!
yes another fountain of misinformation. People come here for optional procedures. People from here go to india for cancer treatment because they can't afford it here. Where do you get your info ? Rush?
 
Unread 11-10-2009, 10:19 AM
 
Location: West Yellowstone, MT
239 posts, read 376,331 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamer222 View Post
Big bus. cannot be trusted to take care of the American public. I think they have shown that.
You want to trust the DMV?
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