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Well......I really don't think I want that to happen. I love Quebec, and her people. Not that I don't like them......but I really don't feel like having my country surrounded by America on 3 sides either.
I also love Quebec and its people its the government i cant stand.. At this point theres no future for Anglo's in Quebec,we are being eliminated,we are down to a mere 8%,a number that will never rise just shrink further,Over the years all family and friends have left,Sure my immediate family are all bilingual and we can fool ourselves into thinking we fit in but with a name of Rutherford we'll always be treated as outsiders looking in all the while watching our Anglo culture become a side note in the Quebec history books, no one speaks for us, we have no representation and no future as a culture,a culture that was once a viable ,valuable and vibrant part of the Quebec milieu. At this point Quebec may as well separate and become its own little French Utopia as the government seems to have no tolerance for anything but French and nobody else cares....
Well......I really don't think I want that to happen. I love Quebec, and her people. Not that I don't like them......but I really don't feel like having my country surrounded by America on 3 sides either.
Better the Americans than the French, IMO. At least the Americans are the same as us.
For the record, I really don't get how you can be anti-American and pro-Francophone. Americans are respectful, welcome you to their country with open arms and are the only reason we haven't been invaded by China, Russia or any other country hungry for easily obtained natural resources with little military resistance. The Francos on the other hand, don't want you to visit their province unless you speak French, hate on us in every forum they visit and actively pursue treason as a form of both Federal and Provincial politics.
I also love Quebec and its people its the government i cant stand.. At this point theres no future for Anglo's in Quebec,we are being eliminated,we are down to a mere 8%,a number that will never rise just shrink further,Over the years all family and friends have left,Sure my immediate family are all bilingual and we can fool ourselves into thinking we fit in but with a name of Rutherford we'll always be treated as outsiders looking in all the while watching our Anglo culture become a side note in the Quebec history books, no one speaks for us, we have no representation and no future as a culture,a culture that was once a viable ,valuable and vibrant part of the Quebec milieu. At this point Quebec may as well separate and become its own little French Utopia as the government seems to have no tolerance for anything but French and nobody else cares....
I'm not sure if the Anglo population will shrink, if you count immigrants who choose English as their main language.
Although the existing laws are pretty bad, I can't see any of the new worse laws being passed, it is a minority PQ government after all, so is there really much of a chance things will actually get worse than they already are for the Quebec Anglo community, in terms of laws?
Also I think there's a lot to be said for the fact that the Anglos are still there, and if they haven't left already, maybe it means they wouldn't ever leave, barring separation or the language laws getting even worse than they already are.
My problem with seperation is that Montreal is a vibrant bilingual city, always has been (along with other regions of Quebec such as Gatineau and the Eastern Townships). I don't want to just stand by and allow one of Canada's greatest cities, a city with a rich bilingual heritage, to be taken over by a fascist French-only state. Now, if we were just talking about Quebec City, Chicoutimi, Trois Rivieres, etc seperating, I'd be totally fine with that. Maybe the best solution for all parties would be as outlined in Trudeau's statement "if Canada is divisible, then Quebec is divisible". We could keep Montreal, the Eastern Townships and the Outaouais region (and Mont-Tremblant too), and they can get the rest. The only real notable Anglo population on their side would be the small Anglo community in the Gaspe region, and while it'd be unfortunate, they're a small and somewhat isolated community, and it seems they'd either leave or already be prepared for this scenario on a functional basis anyway.
I'm not sure if the Anglo population will shrink, if you count immigrants who choose English as their main language.
Although the existing laws are pretty bad, I can't see any of the new worse laws being passed, it is a minority PQ government after all, so is there really much of a chance things will actually get worse than they already are for the Quebec Anglo community, in terms of laws?
Also I think there's a lot to be said for the fact that the Anglos are still there, and if they haven't left already, maybe it means they wouldn't ever leave, barring separation or the language laws getting even worse than they already are.
I dont include the Allophones in my complaints about Quebec as they never had a culture here to begin with and arent really seeing what once was cease to exist,
As for new laws not being worse? its relentless =http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/...087/story.html
As for the Anglos still being here? sure there are some still here around 8% of the Quebec population mostly in Montreal,that figure used to be around 30%,My family will be adding to that migration as my two daughters have no intention of staying in Quebec and as soon as my wife retires were outta here.
I like your idea of separating Montreal from Quebec,kinda like a Monaco type arrangement but the Quebec government would balk at that idea as most of Quebec's money is in Montreal.
I dont include the Allophones in my complaints about Quebec as they never had a culture here to begin with and arent really seeing what once was cease to exist,
As for the Anglos still being here? sure there are some still here around 8% of the Quebec population mostly in Montreal,that figure used to be around 30%,My family will be adding to that migration as my two daughters have no intention of staying in Quebec and as soon as my wife retires were outta here.
I like your idea of separating Montreal from Quebec,kinda like a Monaco type arrangement but the Quebec government would balk at that idea as most of Quebec's money is in Montreal.
I think the Allophones who primarily speak English identify more closely with the Anglo culture than with the Franco culture, is the point I am trying to make. Let's say hypothetically you're born and raised in a town like Beaconsfield or Dollard-des-Ormeux, to Allo parents, and are raised Anglophone, interact mostly with the Anglo community in daily life, then would you say that person could call themselves an Anglo Quebecer?
Also how do you define the difference between Allo and Anglo? How many generations of English-speaking does it take? If someone's parents came from Italy to Montreal in the mid-twentieth century, and they speak only English today, are they Allo or Anglo?
It seems almost racist, the idea that one couldn't consider themselves an Anglo Quebecer under such circumstances. Doesn't help the argument much to approach it from such a perspective IMO, it really sounds no different than the "Pure Laine" ethnic nationalist Quebecois, just from a reverse Anglo perspective. Not only that, but, while I don't believe that the Anglo community in Quebec is set to disappear anytime soon (barring seperation), I do think as a minority, they need all the allies they can get, and being uninclusive of "Allo" Anglophones seems like a bad step.
The Quebec government obviously wouldn't like the idea of splitting Quebec, but then, if Quebec was still not yet a country, and sovereignty was on the table, wouldn't the Canadian government still have the authority to hold referendums, say, county-by-county, within Quebec? In which the counties that vote in a majority to stay in Canada, would stay in Canada. Wasn't that essentially what Trudeau suggested?
I could also imagine Montreal being split a la Berlin, if it got down to the REAL nitty gritty of voting by ridings or anything that small. Now THAT would be a clusterf*** and a half. But I'd imagine counties is probably where the line would be drawn.
Also, re the link you posted, I'm well aware of how draconian the new PROPOSED PQ laws are but my point is, have any of these laws actually been passed, and is there a good chance they actually will be passed? To my understanding, as a minority govt, they don't have the power to pass these laws.
I admit, just to contextualize my post, I am speaking all this as somewhat of an outsider, born and bred and having lived my whole life in the GTA and Southwestern Ontario, but I have given a fair amount of research lately to this whole situation.
Last edited by Redrum237; 09-16-2012 at 09:41 AM..
Anglophone= some one who's primary language at home is English
Francophone =is some one who's primary language at home is French
Allophone =is some one who's primary language home is other than French or English.
If after generations of being here they could become Anglophones or Francophones or remain Allophones,all depends what their primary language at home is.
As for Quebec passing draconian laws?Bill101 has been in effect for a long time
The office de la langue Francaise (Language police) has also been around for some time along with many other laws and regulations that exist to promote the French language.
Anglophone= some one who's primary language at home is English
Francophone =is some one who's primary language at home is French
Allophone =is some one who's primary language home is other than French or English.
If after generations of being here they could become Anglophones or Francophones or remain Allophones,all depends what their primary language at home is.
As for Quebec passing draconian laws?Bill101 has been in effect for a long time
The office de la langue Francaise (Language police) has also been around for some time along with many other laws and regulations that exist to promote the French language.
Fair enough, although my point still stands, Anglophones should seek alliances with the Anglo-leaning Allophone community. Also I'd argue that an Allophone could become an Anglophone within one generation even if they choose to speak English at home, and same for Francophones.
Also my point is, the existing draconian laws haven't been enough to make the Anglos all leave, there's still a significant community, so I don't think there'll be a future mass exodus beyond what there's been already, the decline may continue slowly but I doubt it'll heavily accelerate, unless of course Quebec separates or the PQ passes even stricter laws.
Fair enough, although my point still stands, Anglophones should seek alliances with the Anglo-leaning Allophone community. Also I'd argue that an Allophone could become an Anglophone within one generation even if they choose to speak English at home, and same for Francophones.
Also my point is, the existing draconian laws haven't been enough to make the Anglos all leave, there's still a significant community, so I don't think there'll be a future mass exodus beyond what there's been already, the decline may continue slowly but I doubt it'll heavily accelerate, unless of course Quebec separates or the PQ passes even stricter laws.
Alliances between Anglo and Allo communities? for what purpose? "Allophone could become an Anglophone within one generation even if they choose to speak English at home", I'm missing your point, what difference does it make if an Allophone becomes an Anglophone in 5 minutes or never becomes a Anglophone or Francophone.?.
And no all the Anglos havent left yet and are not leaving en masse but be assured they are leaving slowly but surely...
Alliances between Anglo and Allo communities? for what purpose? "Allophone could become an Anglophone within one generation even if they choose to speak English at home", I'm missing your point, what difference does it make if an Allophone becomes an Anglophone in 5 minutes or never becomes a Anglophone or Francophone.?.
And no all the Anglos havent left yet and are not leaving en masse but be assured they are leaving slowly but surely...
For the purpose of opposing draconian Francophone-only laws and Quebec seperatism, obviously.
My point about Allophones is that they can become part of the Anglo culture. This is all in response to your earlier post; "I dont include the Allophones in my complaints about Quebec as they never had a culture here to begin with and arent really seeing what once was cease to exist". You also used the term "generations" so I was specifying that even within a generation it is possible.
I think many Anglos in Quebec that are still there are still there for a reason, because they're the sort of people who value their heritage and presence there. I think most of the ones who'd leave for convenience or economic reasons have probably already left.
Now, if the laws changed for the more draconian, or if Quebec separated, then that could spark a massive Anglo exodus indeed.
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