Bill 14 (gated, living, floors)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ONTVisit

Ehm someone told me they teach French from grade 4... Maybe thats in ON?

Grade 4 to 8 in Ontario in regular English schools. Then you have to take it at least one year in high school.

Of course French immersion programs are a whole other level of exposure.

Originally Posted by ONTVisit

Why can't most Canadians speak French then?

Generally equal parts of lack of motivation, lack of good quality teaching and lack of opportunities to use it.

[pdw]

Originally Posted by ONTVisit

Because French is basically only spoken in Quebec and minority language in Canada. If French was not in threat, and most Canadians were truly bilinguals I may have supported Quebec being bilingual. Again, Quebec should still be unique.

"Still"? Quebec has always been bilingual. I don't understand.

[jambo101]

Originally Posted by ONTVisit

Because French is basically only spoken in Quebec and minority language in Canada. If French was not in threat, and most Canadians were truly bilinguals I may have supported Quebec being bilingual. Again, Quebec should still be unique.

I dont see the point in teaching people another language if they have no need or motivation to ever use it.
Quebec is very unique and totally French with some bilingualism scattered here and there,French in Quebec is not in any way threatened and if bill101 and the OQLF were scrapped tomorrow nothing would change except tax payers might pay a little less.Also on my trips around Canada just about everything in road signage and government is bilingual and most schools outside Quebec do give rudimentary instruction in French,
Basically the demographics of the country is French predominates in Quebec,English predominates in the ROC, nothing personal its just the way it is.

PS, out of curiosity ONTVisit why would some one living in Germany care about the linguistic dynamics of Canada?

[aliss2]

Originally Posted by ONTVisit

Why can't most Canadians speak French then?

Demographics? Why learn French in Vancouver when you can learn Chinese instead?

[pdw]

Originally Posted by ONTVisit

Because French is basically only spoken in Quebec and minority language in Canada. If French was not in threat, and most Canadians were truly bilinguals I may have supported Quebec being bilingual. Again, Quebec should still be unique.

This new "Québécois" identity is a product of the 1960s. For hundreds and hundreds of years before that, French Canadians saw themselves as just that, Canadians. They identified far more strongly with their country than their province. Quebec was not seen as separate from the rest of the country, and the presence of English in Quebec along with the presence of French in the rest of Canada was openly acknowledged, unlike today. I don't see how Hudson, Quebec is apparently a French town, but Kapuskasing, Ontario is not. There are English communities in Quebec, French communities in the rest of Canada, bilingual communities in both, and both Canada and Quebec are bilingual, de jure or not. I don't want to get into an argument, that's just the way it is. Plain and simple. For heaven's sake, we've had Canadian ministers who were anglophones from Quebec like Sir John Abbott. Quebec just happens to have a higher percentage of francophones than anglophones. That doesn't make it in any way a separate society from the rest of Canada.

[jambo101]

Its the Francophones themselves that are making themselves a separate society from the rest of Canada by ghettoizing themselves in Quebec with the idea only the French language is relevant .condoning a separatist government,allowing bill101 to exist, Trying to pass bill14, allowing language police to exist, not speaking up when minorities are being marginalized or in the case of the English eliminated entirely, they basically dont want to be Canadians. IMO

[Pierre-paul]

Originally Posted by aliss2

Demographics? Why learn French in Vancouver when you can learn Chinese instead?

Learning French does not prevent one from learning Chinese as well.

[pdw]

Originally Posted by Pierre-paul

Learning French does not prevent one from learning Chinese as well.

I still believe that French is more useful to BC students than Chinese. Chinese isn't a global language like French is, nor is it a particularly widespread language in our country, outside the immigrant community.
I think all of Canada needs to become more English/French bilingual from coast to coast. It will bring us closer to each-other as a country. The division between the French and English communities needs to end.

[jambo101]

Originally Posted by pdw

I still believe that French is more useful to BC students than Chinese. Chinese isn't a global language like French is, nor is it a particularly widespread language in our country, outside the immigrant community.
I think all of Canada needs to become more English/French bilingual from coast to coast. It will bring us closer to each-other as a country. The division between the French and English communities needs to end.

Ultimately people are going to speak the language/s relevant to their lives, in Quebec that would be predominantly French,outside Quebec (N.America) that would be predominantly English, pdw While your ideal of every one learning both languages coast to coast may look good on paper in reality you arent going to get Anglophones speaking French in places there is no French just for the sake of speaking French and visa versa in Quebec.
As for bringing us closer together? i'll believe that when the people of Quebec scrap Bill101,bill14, the language police, and telling every one what languages they can speak or use or what linguistic schools their children can attend,Seems to me the rest of Canada has no problem with the Francophone moving to the ROC,granted its in their best interest to speak English but have an Anglophone move to Quebec and all of a sudden he has to abide by a whole set of weird laws that no one else has to abide by,
pdw i'm not seeing any indication that English Canadians are feeling the need to get closer together with our French compatriots and from my Quebec perspective i'm not seeing anything that would make me feel the Quebec Francophone has any interest in Canada whatsoever.

[aliss2]

Originally Posted by pdw

I still believe that French is more useful to BC students than Chinese..

You believe a lot of things about a place that you don't know anything about!

It would be lovely if children could grow up learning both languages plus an additional language but in practical reality, it isn't going to happen on a large scale. Mine do - they are in a trilingual school (with Spanish) but that is my choice.

I'm an ESL teacher. I know about language learning and I love languages (I know English obviously, I speak intermediate French, and I have taken years of Mandarin and Japanese).

But let's talk practical reality. In BC, I was a 911 operator for years before becoming a teacher. Do you know what language I used over and over again in my DAILY LIFE? Aside from English?

It was Mandarin.

Let's talk about what "useful" means. What is USEFUL? Please, tell me - do you think that a unilingual francophone has ever needed a translation when applying for a driver's license? Doubtful. What about Mandarin? Holy heck, you better believe it.

Yes, I think you dream of a united Canada based on language, but you are also coming from your central Canadian perspective that the west actually cares that much about the central Canadian language debate. I can assure you, it is irrelevant in practical daily life in British Columbia. Western Canadians also in general tend to resent any imposition of learning French becausethat is seen as imposing central Canadian perspective on them.