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Old 05-03-2015, 11:14 AM
 
909 posts, read 1,154,249 times
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Originally Posted by ONTVisit View Post
Am I the only English-speaking North American who strongly supports Quebec being ONLY French-speaking? I do not speak French at all, but I love visiting Quebec and seeing only French signs. I dislike seeing English signs even though I speak the language. French is the major part why many of us love visiting Quebec because we get a taste of France in North America! If it becomes bilingual, then it would suck and French will be in decline and Quebec would become like rest of Canada and North America.

Please support ONLY French in Quebec and increase bilingualism in rest of Canada. Let Quebec be unique and charming.
You're not the only one. I like the French there too. English is everywhere already so why not have a place that's different for a change. It's nice seeing the Quebec culture and french language in Quebec. I understand why Anglophones born in Quebec have a problem with it. Never understood why Canadians outside of Quebec had problem with it though.
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Old 05-03-2015, 01:43 PM
 
692 posts, read 957,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
The only people in Canada i see with language hangups are francophones wherever they may be and those few Anglophones in Quebec. Everyone else in the rest of Canada couldnt care less about the issue.
Anglophone privilege. It's the same underlying mechanism for why Whites generally don't have to worry about racism, or straight people don't have to worry about homophobia.
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Old 05-03-2015, 02:07 PM
 
35,309 posts, read 52,330,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lexdiamondz1902 View Post
Anglophone privilege. It's the same underlying mechanism for why Whites generally don't have to worry about racism, or straight people don't have to worry about homophobia.
Look across the country,wheres the linguistic hangups?
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Old 05-03-2015, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,883 posts, read 38,053,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machjo View Post
I'm a native French speaker who had to leave Quebec because my brother-in-law did not know French. My wife and I both spoke French and worked in Montreal, so the plan was that he would stay with us while completing his education in an English-medium high school there with his parents footing the bill (so no cost to the taxpayer, only money going into the province). Even then the school was not allowed to recognize Amharic to fulfill his second-language requirement for high school graduation (only French and no other language could be recognized for the purpose). Since he was still a minor and not a Canadian citizen, I had to accompany him to Ontario for a few months until he reached the age of maturity. The high school there did recognize Amharic to fulfill his second language requirement.

A reason we'd moved to Montreal from Victoria in the first place was due to ethnic, racial, and religious hatred leading to anonymous threats of violence in Victoria. When you have to move around at a young age, it hurts budget big time, right at a crucial point in one's life.

So trust me, even French speakers have got caught in the web of Quebec's language laws. The only real way to protect yourself is to not only speak French and marry a French speaker, but ensure her whole family speaks French too!
I am not sure that very specific and personal administrative problems or disagreements like this are really relevant to the discussion or, most importantly, indicative of the quality of a given society.
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Old 05-03-2015, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,883 posts, read 38,053,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Look across the country,wheres the linguistic hangups?
I think it's pretty obvious that there is a malaise about language and bilingualism especially in Anglo-Canada. Everyone is of course aware that knowledge of French remains very low there and people don't like to be reminded of it. They especially hate being reminded of it when travelling abroad and meeting foreigners who expect all (or at least most) Canadians to be reasonably bilingual in English and French.

I know what you will respond jambo: that people don't really care. You're right, they don't think about it generally. That's probably one of the reasons French proficiency in the ROC is so low.

But that doesn't mean they are zen about it when someone brings it up.
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Old 05-04-2015, 01:59 AM
 
35,309 posts, read 52,330,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
the reasons French proficiency in the ROC is so low.

.
The main reason proficiency in French is so low in the rest of Canada is mostly due to the lack of francophones in the rest of Canada and not because there is some malaise about language and bilingualism in the Anglo demographic.
In a geographical area (ROC)comprised almost entirely of 28 million Anglophones what need is there for a second language?
Again Canada is only bilingual in as much as it has a large demographic of francophones in its province of Quebec the rest of the country is almost entirely English, that doesnt equate to the entire country as being bilingual, those outside Canada that expect all Canadians to be bilingual have been misinformed about the Canadian reality when it comes to Canadas bilingual status.

Last edited by jambo101; 05-04-2015 at 02:12 AM..
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Old 05-04-2015, 04:38 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,883 posts, read 38,053,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
The main reason proficiency in French is so low in the rest of Canada is mostly due to the lack of francophones in the rest of Canada and not because there is some malaise about language and bilingualism in the Anglo demographic.
Note that I said ''one of the reasons'', not ''the main reason''.
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Old 05-04-2015, 04:48 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,883 posts, read 38,053,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
In a geographical area (ROC)comprised almost entirely of 28 million Anglophones what need is there for a second language?
.
This is actually a prime example and one of the symptoms of the malaise. In most of the world, saying that kids shouldn't have to learn a second language in school is usually seen as an uncouth American ''People of Walmart'' kind of view. Because of the never-ending debate over language, bilingualism, immersion, Quebec, etc. in Canada, many Anglo-Canadians do indeed have a hang up about second language learning, and tend to dismiss its value much more roundly than the global, worldly image they often like to couch themselves in would lead you to expect.
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Old 05-04-2015, 05:10 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,883 posts, read 38,053,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machjo View Post
I remember reading one article written by Dr. Humphry Tonkin in which he described a paradoxical advantage of official unilingualism for unofficial linguistic communities. He had contrasted the time when French was the undisputed language of international diplomacy and now when the UN has six official languages. He'd pointed out how then any member of an unofficial linguistic community had to learn French, but that once he'd learnt it, he could then communicate with all other diplomats and, with the exception of native speakers of French, on an equal footing.
Additionally his country's diplomatic corp could save money on translation (which would benefit only the official linguistic communities anyway).

This paradoxical advantage can be applied to Canada in contrasting Quebec and Canada. A native speaker of one of Quebec's unofficial languages (i.e. any language but French) puts everyone other than Quebec's native speakers of French on an equal footing when it comes to accessing both employment and government services. For example, all other qualifications being equal, an English-French bilingual and an Anishnaabemowin-French bilingual have an equal chance of accessing municipal or provincial employment in the City of Gatineau, and both have an equal obligation to learn French to access municipal and provincial government services. Learning French as a common language ensures that they both share a common language to communicate with one another, which frees both from the obligation to learn a third language, which in turn allows them to invest their remaining resources in the development of their own respective mother tongues should they wish to do so.

To clarify, I'm focusing here on the principle of official monolingualism and not on the excesses of the French Language Charter beyond its application in government administration and second-language instruction policy.

Now let's contrast this with official bilingualism. Between the same two persons, the English-French bilingual would clearly have the advantage over the Anishnaabemowin-French bilingual in accessing Federal government employment in the City of Gatineau. Of course the Anishnaabemowin-French bilingual could make himself Anishnaabewin-French-English trilingual, but at an opportunity-cost, possibly including to his own language, a decision that the English-French bilingual need not make, allowing him to invest that extra time in learning other skills. The unilingual English-speaker can also access Federal government services in Gatineau, whereas unilingualism is not even an option for any unofficial linguistic community.
According to the principle of the paradoxical advantage of unofficial unilingualism, Ottawa ought to follow Gatineau's example, and not the other way around.
Just so we are all clear on this: what exactly is the Gatineau example in your view?
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Old 05-04-2015, 05:24 AM
 
35,309 posts, read 52,330,579 times
Reputation: 31000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Note that I said ''one of the reasons'', not ''the main reason''.
You cant seriously expect to arrive at some place in Canada where no one speaks french and expect every one to be bilingual, hospitals and schools to all be in French,French signs in abundance.
Logic would dictate if you go some place where there is no French chances are good you wont find any French.
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