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Thought I'd chime in, though this is an old thread.
OP, I'm all in favor of encouraging and supporting French/English bilingualism across Canada AND in the preeminence of French language and culture in Quebec. But to abolish any presence of English - the language of business throughout the world - would be a huge disservice to Quebec and its people. It would also be patronizing and paternalistic to do so in the 21st century, imo. Quebec is a strong, dynamic place who holds herself very well within North America, because her people are, by and large, well-educated and fluid in both languages and cultures. She is not there just to look pretty or to be "charming" for tourists.
I assume, btw, that you're also in favor of abolishing English to support the original language in states like Texas, New Mexico, Florida, and California? Having a Spanish-only presence in those places would perhaps make them more "charming."
Most people aren't businessmen dealing with clients from across the globe. Those that need to learn English almost always do, and Quebec has a higher rate of bilingualism than basically every other Canadian province. English isn't banned in Quebec, if anything Quebec supports Anglophones with taxpayer's money to a far greater extent than the remaining other provinces support Francophones. As for patronising and paternalistic...Loi 101 is widely supported by the Quebecois themselves, so this isn't necessarily some imposition from outside.
French isn't official in Quebec because of tourism. French is official in Quebec because it is the mother tongue of 80% of the population. Period.
Most people aren't businessmen dealing with clients from across the globe. Those that need to learn English almost always do, and Quebec has a higher rate of bilingualism than basically every other Canadian province. English isn't banned in Quebec, if anything Quebec supports Anglophones with taxpayer's money to a far greater extent than the remaining other provinces support Francophones. As for patronising and paternalistic...Loi 101 is widely supported by the Quebecois themselves, so this isn't necessarily some imposition from outside.
French isn't official in Quebec because of tourism. French is official in Quebec because it is the mother tongue of 80% of the population. Period.
As someone who lived in Quebec as a teen and who happily pursued bilingualism for years (though I wasn't able to achieve the level of fluency I wanted, my French skills are satisfactory), I'm on your (Quebec's) side. I'm well aware of everything you've told me about Quebec, and I completely understand the wide support for 101. I'm also strongly in favor of increased efforts toward bilingualism across Canada. For an officially bilingual country, it has done an abysmal job of promoting bilingualism outside of Quebec, imo.
It's ironic, however, that I now live in a country that is NOT officially bilingual, and yet the "minority" language enjoys a stronger formal presence throughout the US than does English in the province of Quebec or French in the ROC. That includes all government services being offered in Spanish (and other languages), signs printed only in Spanish, and letters my kids' school district sends home printed in both English and Spanish (etc.). And that's right here in Tennessee, let alone Florida, Texas, or California.
And I've never once heard anyone complain.
Last edited by newdixiegirl; 06-08-2015 at 06:33 PM..
As someone who lived in Quebec as a teen and who happily pursued bilingualism for years (though I wasn't able to achieve the level of fluency I wanted, my French skills are satisfactory), I'm on your (Quebec's) side. I'm well aware of everything you've told me about Quebec, and I completely understand the wide support for 101. I'm also strongly in favor of increased efforts toward bilingualism across Canada. For an officially bilingual country, it has done an abysmal job of promoting bilingualism outside of Quebec, imo.
It's ironic, however, that I now live in a country that is NOT officially bilingual, and yet the "minority" language enjoys a stronger formal presence throughout the US than does English in the province of Quebec or French in the ROC. That includes all government services being offered in Spanish (and other languages), signs printed only in Spanish, and letters my kids' school district sends home printed in both English and Spanish (etc.). And that's right here in Tennessee, let alone Florida, Texas, or California.
And I've never once heard anyone complain.
Nobody is "abolishing" English, it's just not an official language of Quebec. Anglophones in Quebec can still access services in English, can go to school in English, and in many cases work and live almost exclusively in English. It is considerably easier for an Anglophone to live in Quebec than it is for a Francophone to live in any province other than New Brunswick.
As for Spanish having a stronger formal presence in the US than English does in Quebec...that's nonsense. I live in a neighbourhood in NYC that is 90% Spanish speaking and while there are services available in Spanish, a monolingual Spanish speaker has almost zero chance of making it into the middle class, whereas an English Quebecker could attend one of the best universities in N. America on the taxpayer's dime and not learn a word of French.
And even given the limited recognition of Spanish in the US, people still complain. Plenty of people complain. The English-only movement is a thing, with considerable support in the US.
I think people should have the right to speak whatever language they want on the street without being discriminated and it should be legal to speak whatever language in businesses between employee to employee and customers. But I don't think it's unreasonable for business signs and operations to be in French only and the provincial signs and government operations to be in French only either. So I'm for the bill if it gets modified a bit to ensure no discrimination occours. But I'm all for Quebec being a prodominetely French province. I think it makes it unique.
Nobody is "abolishing" English, it's just not an official language of Quebec. Anglophones in Quebec can still access services in English, can go to school in English, and in many cases work and live almost exclusively in English. It is considerably easier for an Anglophone to live in Quebec than it is for a Francophone to live in any province other than New Brunswick.
As for Spanish having a stronger formal presence in the US than English does in Quebec...that's nonsense. I live in a neighbourhood in NYC that is 90% Spanish speaking and while there are services available in Spanish, a monolingual Spanish speaker has almost zero chance of making it into the middle class, whereas an English Quebecker could attend one of the best universities in N. America on the taxpayer's dime and not learn a word of French.
And even given the limited recognition of Spanish in the US, people still complain. Plenty of people complain. The English-only movement is a thing, with considerable support in the US.
It does get annoying at times, but who are we to dictate that a store catering mainly to a Spanish clientele should not have its main print and sign in their language of choice?
Asian stores here do the same: Their stores are mainly written in Chinese/Thai/Japanese/whatever-else language they use, and there are no laws forcing them to display everything in larger, bolder English wording.
The laws that a bakery in Westmount must have French labels larger than English labels is just stupid.
It does get annoying at times, but who are we to dictate that a store catering mainly to a Spanish clientele should not have its main print and sign in their language of choice?
Asian stores here do the same: Their stores are mainly written in Chinese/Thai/Japanese/whatever-else language they use, and there are no laws forcing them to display everything in larger, bolder English wording.
The laws that a bakery in Westmount must have French labels larger than English labels is just stupid.
The problem here in Quebec is the fear that without all this draconian language legislation and language police to back it up all the francophones will in short order turn into Anglophones
The problem here in Quebec is the fear that without all this draconian language legislation and language police to back it up all the francophones will in short order turn into Anglophones
Difference of opinion/perception AJ. Back before the quiet revolution the English had all the money and were instrumental in creating Quebecs industrial/economic infrastructure,it was only natural that the head offices were mostly Anglo and those head office workers would probably not hire unilingual francophone employees for office work but they were certainly welcome and needed to work in the factories.
While you may think of it as Anglo suppression and domination i'm sure it was unintended and just a matter of an economic hierarchy, if suppression and domination of the francophone was intended an Anglo equivalent of bill101 and its language police would surely have been instituted with the result being a total elimination of the French face of Quebec,Didnt go down that way did it?
As for some still seeming to have this attitude and reflex of Anglo domination to this day?
I'm curious as to who you might be referring to as the Anglo demographic in Quebec has been reduced to a mostly bilingual 8% with no power or leadership and most companies have moved their head offices elsewhere, basically the Anglo demographic in Quebec is irrelevant and the elimination of bill101 and the language police wont result in Quebecs francophones becoming Anglophones.
Difference of opinion/perception AJ. Back before the quiet revolution the English had all the money and were instrumental in creating Quebecs industrial/economic infrastructure,it was only natural that the head offices were mostly Anglo and those head office workers would probably not hire unilingual francophone employees for office work but they were certainly welcome and needed to work in the factories.
While you may think of it as Anglo suppression and domination i'm sure it was unintended and just a matter of an economic hierarchy, if suppression and domination of the francophone was intended an Anglo equivalent of bill101 and its language police would surely have been instituted with the result being a total elimination of the French face of Quebec,Didnt go down that way did it?
As for some still seeming to have this attitude and reflex of Anglo domination to this day?
I'm curious as to who you might be referring to as the Anglo demographic in Quebec has been reduced to a mostly bilingual 8% with no power or leadership and most companies have moved their head offices elsewhere, basically the Anglo demographic in Quebec is irrelevant and the elimination of bill101 and the language police wont result in Quebecs francophones becoming Anglophones.
Of course to all of this.
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