Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hey everyone. The thread title is fairly to the point. I'm somewhat unusual, in that I am 22, American, and don't have a driver's license. The thing is, I have been travelling frequently since I was 18, rarely spending more than 2 or 3 weeks home at a time, making it difficult to learn. My (disconnected, unfocused) lessons in driving when I was 17 left me less than eager. I dislike the feel of a typical car (I hate the blindspots and the amount of metal I am handling, quite frankly). The stress and zero confidence made it a chore to learn, and the prospect of driving on Long Island/NY metro area isn't the thrilling prospect young people dream of. All that time in Europe made me far more comfortable with the idea of a bike (not an exact or even approximate translation of skills to a motorcycle I know, but bear with me).
Further, I have location dynamics. I can keep and sell (when needed) a bike in my foreign location (Brisbane, Australia...land of 70 degree winters and 85 degree summers) with less hassle than a car. At home, I can store a bike when I am not using it, but I do not have the space for a car.
When I haul stuff long distance, it's in the hold of a Boeing 747 or Airbus A380.
Then there is the irrational component: my road-trip dreams is order of easiet to most difficult to accomplish.
1.I want to bike up the New England coast when I have a free September (IE after the damn tourists go home) in the US.
2. Further, I want to visit some friends in CA. I'd take the scenic route and swing up to Canada for a bit.
3. The ultimate trip....I want to go from St Andrews, Scotland (my undergrad university) to The Peak in Hong Kong...by road.
My thoughts on those are that I'd want to do them either in a luxury sedan or a motorcycle.
Going to practical realities:
I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of professional MFS affiliated bike training programs. I have seen what happens when inexperienced idiots with bravado get themselves wrecked on the road...my friend's father with his new Harley is my prime example.
Opinion is divided on driving first versus biking first. IE, one should drive first and make mistakes in a car before screwing up on a bike. On the other hand, some swear that you'll learn more skilful and defensive driving by biking first.
Budget: I can afford what I need and want. From what I've seen so far, I don't see the need to spend more than $7,500 for a bike, although I am always open to a good suggestion if someone has a case to make. My gear budget would be effectively unlimited, given what's at stake.
I've recently deleted a car in favor of a bicycle. When I first started driving, you could work on your own vehicle. Today, that is no longer possible because of all the electronics, which I have little to no faith in. (And, I made my living with electronics) I'll be using a bicycle until they start putting all the electronics on them, then I'll switch to roller-blades... If I can't work on it and repair it myself, I don't need it.
That being said.....
I've got a hitch on my bike, and a trailer I can hook behind it. For long trips, it would be very possible to pack all I would need to "camp" along the way. If you want to use a motorcycle, there are trailers that can be pulled behind them as well. You should not need one of the largest, most powerful bikes on the market, but something that can handle a load well. I've stayed away from "motorized" because of all the electronics they're putting on them as well.
First off, I'm a rider of 2 decades (started in college), roadraced for 3 full seasons, am a factory trained and certified MC mechanic, I've even been an admin on a forum dedicated to a popular entry-level motorcycle for 9 years now. I went cage-free for 8 years too.
With all of that said, I am 100% in the camp of "learn the rules of the road/driving in a cage first". As you said about gear, there's a lot at stake with motorcycling, and it's a Terribly expensive way to learn things that would otherwise be a simple fender bender. Yes, riding a motorcycle DOES make you more aware while on the road, but every single 14 and 15 year old that I know to have died while on a motorcycle, made a Simple error that would have been nothing but a fender bender in a car. Not even one where a vehicle wasn't drivable Immediately afterwards. It's just one of those things where my personal experience leans to the "learn to drive a car" side in such a major way that it's impossible to ignore.
This isn't usually an issue as most kids are eager to hop in a car and learn to drive, but if you ride around in cars and pay attention to what other drivers are doing (and you're older than 25 ~ the brain in males is Finally finished with development at 25, makes a big difference), then maybe you can get away with going bike first.
Everything else is doable. I've been coast to coast, 2-up even (and camping along the way). On road, on gravel with a road-bike, on little more than a cattle trail with a dual-sport bike and road biased tires.
Again, experience here, but the one thing I'll never do. I'll never ride with someone who does, and I'll speak out against every time it's mentioned. Towing a trailer with a motorcycle. Ask ANY tire manufacture for a specific tire they recommend to do this, and all of them will say they don't have a tire that can SAFELY deal with the stresses of towing a trailer. Dig a little further and those same reps will tell you stories about Radial tires that had blow-outs... that's unheard of. Bias-ply, yeah, it's happened and still happens in rare cases, but a Radial? Never, they just don't blow out sidewalls... unless it's on a motorcycle, towing a trailer. Obviously, it doesn't happen to everyone/every time, but motorcycling is dangerous enough, why Intentionally add more risk? If you really NEED that much more storage space, use a sidecar/hack. Better to just be smarter about packing.
So, I wouldn't recommend the course you Want to take. There are more risks in that path than in another easily accomplished path. People have done it before though, and will most likely do it again in years to come. So it really comes down to your choice and risk assessment... how much risk are you willing to shoulder?
I wouldn't start out on a bike on the road first. I got my first 2 stroke dirt bike when I was 10. It was a Yamaha YZ80. I learned on that off road. I had a scooter too when I was 14-15. Learn in a car first or learn off road on a dirt bike. The road is no place to start your driving experience on a bike.
Im a bicycle commuter who uses scooter occasionally. Been riding MC's/racing since 1974.
For Motorcycle, I'd consider a used scooter like a Burgman 400 because it has loads of storage room and its easy to change tires on the road. If you want an MC, a Yamaha 250 or Suzuki 400 dual sport would be a real nice all-purpose tool
I am impressed by your comments re: "stress and zero confidence" about driving in traffic with a car.
If you think that driving in those circumstances you described are stressful in a car where you have the benefits of passenger protection are going to be less on a motorcycle, I think you may be wrong.
I am impressed by your comments re: "stress and zero confidence" about driving in traffic with a car.
If you think that driving in those circumstances you described are stressful in a car where you have the benefits of passenger protection are going to be less on a motorcycle, I think you may be wrong.
Thanks for the responses, all.
The car itself brings some specific issues that cause said stress and diminish confidence.
1) My blind spot....ie, the right side of the vehicle.
2) Spatial perception: The perception of the car's size. I have hated "guesstimating" how long my hood extends, how big my rear is (guffaws allowed here), if I am riding the curb too tight. I've driven in a toyota camry (least problems, relatively), toyota matrix (HATED this), and a RAV 4. The short of it is that it's too much damn metal, and I find it excessively cumbersome (IMO, obviously).
3) Overall dampened senses. During my biking throughout Germany, I loved being able to have full command/sight of traffic...to my left and ride. What's more, where I couldn't see behind me, I could hear whoever was hurrying behind me (car, tram, bus, etc).
See my issue? It's not the traffic, it's the damn car.
i don't think going from "no driving experience whatsoever" to "international road trips on a motorcycle" in just one step is a great idea
if you're in the NY metro area, it's a good place for motorcycle as primary vehicle because it is easy to use mass transit as primary (at first, and during cold months) and gradually work in more biking (with more experience, during warm months). this is pretty much what i do since its not worth it for me to have a car in the city
in any case i highly recommend a car first. you may think you feel less comfortable driving a car. but i guarantee the very first time some jer*off drifts into your lane on the FDR drive or LIE you'll realize that riding a motorcycle requires much more attention and is less forgiving of mistakes. NY metro area is not an easy place to learn to drive anything much less a motorcycle (compared to most parts of US)
specifically regarding car blind spots, if you properly adjust your mirrors (most people don't) they are not a problem in most commuter vehicles, especially the ones you list (i have driven all three). I suspect whoever taught you to adjust the mirrors did not give you good advice (they are called *SIDE*view but most people use them as rearview). having confidence in your mirrors goes a long way towards alleviating the uncomfortable feeling of not being able to directly see all the nearby space
Not to mention head-checks. You're doing them on a bicycle, motorcycle or in a cage. There are no "blind spots" when you do a head check.
I also install convex mirrors on all my mirrors. makes it a little easier to see things when towing, and for those idiots who think it's a Great idea to just hang out in your blind spot and drive there for long distances.
OP, I suspect that once you spent any amount of time driving a car, you'd get over the feeling of anxiety you have towards them. It's a learning experience with the associated learning curve. I know right where the perimeter of both my 4-wheeled vehicles are, and can pull up to within an inch of something without "feeling" for that something. I didn't have that knowledge when I first got those vehicles, it came with driving them and experience.
Id take the MSF course and start with a scooter as they generally have more storage and you can build your skills up.
I have an Aprilia Scarabeo 500 which is way plenty enough power for me. I'd also consider a Piaggio Mp3 (3 wheel scooter).
But before you decide what to buy, first take the MSF course and get your license.
While you're at it, why not take a drivers license course as well and do the road test in a small car?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
