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The argument that one side is better because their corrupt practice isn't as bad as the other is pretty weak. They are both corrupt and until we actually step up and acknowledge that instead of defending one side while damning the other for similar practices, nothing is going to change. Both parties do it, both parties are sham, and both parties got us into the mess we're in now. One is no better than the other....Big Brother or Big Mother.....we all lose. Putting one in power just long enough to scew it up, and then going to back the party we voted out 10 years ago, only to vote them out 10 years later hasn't ever worked and never will.
The argument that one side is better because their corrupt practice isn't as bad as the other is pretty weak. They are both corrupt and until we actually step up and acknowledge that instead of defending one side while damning the other for similar practices, nothing is going to change. Both parties do it, both parties are sham, and both parties got us into the mess we're in now. One is no better than the other....Big Brother or Big Mother.....we all lose.
Actually, I never said one side was better and I never defended either side. I was responding to the fact that somehow phone jamming is "voter fraud". Again, anyone who wanted to vote was able to-phone jamming or not. How was their vote disenfranchised? If someone wants to vote-they will know the date, the time and find a way to get there. It is not government's or anyone else's responsibility to make sure people get to the polls. I am responsible for me getting to the polls. To infer that phone jamming is "voter fraud" is ridiculous. Phone jamming might be illegal and wrong but it is not voter fraud.
However, real voter fraud is someone who is not legally supposed to vote-well-voting or someone showing up, pretending to be me and voting. That is what disenfranchises my vote-not someone not receiving a call reminding them to vote.
I agree with you that both parties are shams. However until we have enough people who have the brains or guts to vote for third party-nothing will change. The sheeple will continue to pull r or d and vote for the "lesser of two evils".
To infer that phone jamming is "voter fraud" is ridiculous. Phone jamming might be illegal and wrong but it is not voter fraud.
That was my point......you're just arguing semantics about illegal activities, as if one is any better than the other.
Sure, voter fraud is worse than jamming a phone line, but I'm not going to be naive enough to assume that one party is holier than the other when it comes to this sort of stuff. Both parties engage in the exact same tactics. It's just a question of who get's caught "this time".
That was my point......you're just arguing semantics about illegal activities, as if one is any better than the other.
Sure, voter fraud is worse than jamming a phone line, but I'm not going to be naive enough to assume that one party is holier than the other when it comes to this sort of stuff. Both parties engage in the exact same tactics. It's just a question of who get's caught "this time".
Well actually I would consider an illegal activity that disenfranchises my vote worse than one that stops a phone call from reminding me to vote. And that is regardless of party. And I never mentioned party in my argument. And I don't think there is anything holy about the democrats or the republicans-they are for the most part the same.
I know, sorry, not trying to put words in your mouth if I did. I'm arguing the bigger picture I guess where your point was only voter fraud vs. jamming phone lines (and not party vs. party). I agree one is worse, but that doesn't make the other side look any better in my eyes......that's all I'm saying. I get your argument and it's valid.
I know, sorry, not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm arguing the bigger picture I guess where your point was only voter fraud vs. jamming phone lines. I agree one is worse, but that doesn't make the other side look any better in my eyes......that's all I'm saying. I get your argument and it's valid.
Yes-I was just arguing the one specific point. Thanks. However, on the broad picture you and I most certainly agree
And that is comparable to real voter fraud, how? Anyone who really wanted to vote-doesn't need a phone call to remind them to vote or an offer of a ride to the polls. If someone wants to vote-they will do it and they will get to the polls. They will know when election day is and how and where to register and vote. Only someone living under a rock would not know these things or not know how to find out. It is up to each of us to have the motivation to vote and to get there and vote. If someone missed out on voting because they did not receive a phone call-that is their own fault. How educated are those people to begin with?
Real voter fraud is people who are not eligible to vote actually voting or someone voting in someone else's place. Afterall, NH foolishly does not require ID to vote. And when you have moveon.org legally allowed to sit at the table and see who has checked in and voted and who hasn't-well the fact that no ID is needed, only adds to that fraud potential.
Nicolem
Well, four people WENT TO JAIL for federal offenses, including 10 months for James Tobin - the cost of his defense nearly bankrupt the NH Republican Party.
The "get out the vote" phone calls - from both parties - do not just simply "remind" people to vote. For instance, they arrange rides for those without transport or with special needs - if your promised ride to the town hall fell through because of illegal phone jamming activity, then you have been disenfranchised.
However, I'd not heard about this alleged voter fraud in New Hampshire. Were there convictions recently? I may have missed a link... ???
what will a Ron Paul write in achieve? Nothing at all, the media would mention Ron Paul for about 4 minutes and its all about obama! This is just my opinion but maybe McCain is not the best, but he blows away obama's scary ties to horrible people. Actually ignore the media bashing of Palin because she alone has more experience then does obama!
Sorry but I think this is just about as scary as Obama winning.The thought of McCain, or even worse, Palin , as president scares the bejeesus out of me. The thought of the size of the government after Obama wins does as well. Either way we are going to get screwed in this election. IMO if you have common sense stances (i.e. getting back to the intent of the founders) on foreign policy, the economy, the role of government, personal liberties, and the environment then you can't really be excited about either candidate. I like them both on some things but am terrified by them on others. What's worse is I can't even bring myself to vote for Bob Barr because his record is about as far from his recent "I've seen the light" libertarian stances that he now claims to stand for.
That's just the thing, Positiveone. While it's definitely good to make a statement and vote with integrity and conscience for a 3rd party/write in - especially if you are displeased w/the Dem/Rep candidates in this election, if Obama wins, we'll see a Dem president w/Dem congress...meaning largely unchecked power, & with an extremely liberal president at that. We could see legislation pass which *lessens our very independence* w/that crowd. I'll sacrifice and take the lesser evil if it helps suppress the larger one in this case, it's important enough right now when I frame the ideals/intentions of voting with the current climate and society and the very imminent possibilities.
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McCain/Palin 2008 for a safe Change
, as president scares the bejeesus out of me. The thought of the size of the government after Obama wins does as well. Either way we are going to get screwed in this election. IMO if you have common sense stances (i.e. getting back to the intent of the founders) on foreign policy, the economy, the role of government, personal liberties, and the environment then you can't really be excited about either candidate. I like them both on some things but am terrified by them on others. What's worse is I can't even bring myself to vote for Bob Barr because his record is about as far from his recent "I've seen the light" libertarian stances that he now claims to stand for. 
