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As I've said before, I love the idea of South Jersey having its own major research institution. At the same time though, I think we also deserve to have our own Rutgers campus... RU is an important institution that binds the state together and creates state pride. It is difficult to decide which of these two issues is more important.
NJ passed some weird law to change everything to University status back in 1998.
I still think that this is a great idea. It gives Rowan the ability to compete with Rutgers New Brunswick/Newark and offers a unique brand.
Unique brand is about right. Rowan's the only high school in the US with an engineering program.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_567
Rutgers Camden has always been Rutgers's third arm, and Rowan has had a unique opportunity with the $100MM Rowan grant. Rowan fast-tracked a very successful engineering program in short order, so they've been able to adapt in the past.
$100 million doesn't buy you a world class engineering/educational facility. There are high schools that cost more to construct. Take, for example, New Brunswick High School. Its construction cost was $187 million.
You can thank the Abbott rulings for those egregious construction costs. No suburban NJ town constructs schools at those costs because they have to foot the bill.
Also, as it relates to the $100MM, I didn't suggest that it was all that was required to build a world-class facility. All I'm suggesting is that Rowan has entertained and managed change in the past. Actually, the engineering program is among the most highly ranked public programs in the US.
I'm a graduate of Rowan. I'm quite proud of what I've accomplished while at college, and I'm very successful today. I would say that my college experience and accomplishments afforded to me from that experience span far beyond those provided by "high school."
You should be encouraging actual competition within the higher ed system -- it is good and NJ needs more of it - not less. Your cherry picked example of a $187MM high school proves that with respect to public education. A public institution that can compete on the same scale as Rutgers is a good thing for the state. It will help Rutgers to focus on differentiating itself, managing costs, retaining talent -- all of those things that seem to become secondary priorities once competition is removed.
If never-ending funding ensured success in the education arena, Camden and New Brunswick should be among the most highly-ranked school systems in the state.
You can thank the Abbott rulings for those egregious construction costs. No suburban NJ town constructs schools at those costs because they have to foot the bill.
Also, as it relates to the $100MM, I didn't suggest that it was all that was required to build a world-class facility. All I'm suggesting is that Rowan has entertained and managed change in the past. Actually, the engineering program is among the most highly ranked public programs in the US.
I'm a graduate of Rowan. I'm quite proud of what I've accomplished while at college, and I'm very successful today. I would say that my college experience and accomplishments afforded to me from that experience span far beyond those provided by "high school."
You should be encouraging actual competition within the higher ed system -- it is good and NJ needs more of it - not less. Your cherry picked example of a $187MM high school proves that with respect to public education. A public institution that can compete on the same scale as Rutgers is a good thing for the state. It will help Rutgers to focus on differentiating itself, managing costs, retaining talent -- all of those things that seem to become secondary priorities once competition is removed.
If never-ending funding ensured success in the education arena, Camden and New Brunswick should be among the most highly-ranked school systems in the state.
State of the art facilities costs money, whether it’s constructing and equipping a high school or an engineering research and education facility. By comparing the $187 million cost of constructing New Brunswick High School to Rowan’s $100 million gift, which presumably was used to fund construction, I’m merely suggesting that Rowan had severely underfunded his dream of building a multi engineering discipline program from ground up. Imo, Rowan expected and required the taxpayers of NJ to fund the balance, as he reaped all of the praise and credit.
I’m sure you realize that the costs are not limited to building and equipping a state of the art engineering facility. Elite engineering programs also require elite cross-disciplinary programs in math, statistics, computer science, physics, chemistry and other physical sciences. These fields form the foundation of any elite engineering program. I’m sure Rowan knew that as well.
My position is simply that the Rowan gift has been a boondoggle for the state. It forced the state to commit funding to the building of multiple programs that are available at RU-NB and NJIT, two in-state public institutions. In light of this fact, I'm calling this funding commitment a pretty egregious misallocation of financial resources.
As for competition, the system is not structured for it. The state designated RU and NJIT as the state’s doctorate-granting, public research universities. So, competition is not cost effective and only leads to waste and duplication.
Right, but NJIT is in North Jersey and RU is Central Jersey-centric. South Jersey should have its own major research institution as well, whether it is Rowan, RU-Camden, or somewhere else. Since Mr. Rowan picked Glassboro State, we should continue with it. Obviously the state is more important as a whole than this region, but we deserve a piece of the pie too.
The benefit of the $100 million to Rowan was not that it actually paid for anything. The gift gave Rowan one of the largest endowments in the country, I believe ranked around 280th in the country and one of the largest among public institutions. That endowment is what has allowed Rowan to secure the financing for its rapid expansion. Virtually all of Henry Rowans gift is sitting in the bank, but the fact it is gives Rowan great leverage in terms of expanding the school, primarily because they can afford the debt service on the financing through construction before realizing the increased tuition from more students.
Competition is not cost-effective? Please name me one monopoly in life that costs you less than a competitive service.
Rowan's state funding has been dollar-for-dollar about the same since 1992. NJGOAT's point about the endowment providing construction bonds in advance of tuition revenues is spot on. In fact, during my time at Rowan, tuition increases were pinned on students at a rate of 10% a year, year over year. Obviously, Rowan would want the state to pick up the bill so they can increase enrollment by having cheaper tuition (or more likely, so they can increase the tuition and still spend more money). Again, since state funding has remained virtually the same since 1992, this has not happened.
All I was suggesting with your HS construction cost number was that it is likely suspect. I encourage you to read up on the inefficiencies of state urban education funding (a living example of one of your lauded monopolies). In short, the State Supreme Court mandated that in addition to eating 60% of the income tax revenues, special places like New Brunswick also deserve brand new schools courtesy of a slush fund known as the SCC (School Construction Corporation). As you can imagine, when all of the accounting controls of a monopoly are in place, the efficiencies are astounding. The school didn't "cost" $187MM in building materials. There were votes bought, unions hired, politicians paid off, money skimmed off of the top, and a school got built too.
What makes you think that this same nonsense wouldn't perpetuate into a single-supplier of research-based state education services? Who else would keep the payrolls, the construction costs, the curricula structure, etc. in check? If NJ goes down this path, you could very well have another UMDNJ-type corruption fisaco, while NJ continues being a net exporter of college students able to get better deals elsewhere.
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