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Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Originally Posted by Noelle Paige
Supermarkets are a shell game , kid, follow the money, they all hide under a bigger company, stop&shop, Ahold, a&p , pathmark, how long have they been sleeping in the same bed ?, there are many ways to get out of union paid employees, 60 days, your out, chain in with same old faces, what is old is new again, just keep an eye open, read a little back round, and remember, Ron Burkles clock got cleaned on the A&P deal,
I have honestly never seen so many people discussing, theorizing and debating the moves of supermarket chains. That isn't even saying anything for all of the "let's play where would you put a retail store" threads.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,670,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT
I have honestly never seen so many people discussing, theorizing and debating the moves of supermarket chains. That isn't even saying anything for all of the "let's play where would you put a retail store" threads.
I know. . .like it doesn't cost big bucks to move & advertise the move.
Last winter I suggested that Kroger might appear. Now it looks like a probability.
I don't see ShopRite going without a major rival much longer. If Ahold wanted to be in South Jersey, they'd be there right now.
I fail to understand why Ahold blew their chance to establish the Giant (of PA) chain in NJ and instead chose to replace Super G with Stop & Shop. Both Super G and Stop & Shop are more upscale than Giant, and perhaps were both targeting too many higher income people for the areas surrounding their NJ stores to supply. Sort of ironically, Giant has the same price point as ShopRite, who bought a lot of the Stop & Shop stores in NJ. And Giant could have served a valuable purpose in NJ by filling all the empty spaces left by Bradlees stores, which were once owned by Stop & Shop, and a number of former Bradlees in PA became Giant, while a number of former Bradlees in the richer parts of the NYC area and New England ended up as Stop & Shop. Basically any Ahold chain could move into a vacated Bradlees for free. Maybe either Edwards, Super G, or Stop & Shop could have coexisted with Giant in NJ peacefully, because lots of Bradlees stores were in poorer rural areas, while the stores known for most of their life as Super G were in areas known for their variety of malls, shopping centers, etc and higher incomes. I get the feeling Giant will someday swallow the ShopRite stores in the Philly area, and perhaps Stop & Shop will swallow the ShopRite stores in the NYC area, or perhaps Giant will swallow Stop & Shop. As for Kroger, maybe they will move north (at least to have a more complete coverage of Virginia if not to enter Maryland, Delaware, or DC) with an acquisition of either Super G, Safeway, Shoppers, or maybe the Martin's chain in West Virginia and rural Maryland (also in rural VA and DE?) which is the PA Giant chain in all but name. It seems to make no sense that ShopRite is represented so many places in very urban Philadelphia County, while also in mostly rural NJ, but almost nowhere in the PA suburbs of Philly. And Giant has been a traditionally rural PA chain but has stayed out of rural NJ, yet it loves the Philly suburbs in PA.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,670,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wardwhirlboromarlpool1955
I fail to understand why Ahold blew their chance to establish the Giant (of PA) chain in NJ and instead chose to replace Super G with Stop & Shop. Both Super G and Stop & Shop are more upscale than Giant, and perhaps were both targeting too many higher income people for the areas surrounding their NJ stores to supply. Sort of ironically, Giant has the same price point as ShopRite, who bought a lot of the Stop & Shop stores in NJ. And Giant could have served a valuable purpose in NJ by filling all the empty spaces left by Bradlees stores, which were once owned by Stop & Shop, and a number of former Bradlees in PA became Giant, while a number of former Bradlees in the richer parts of the NYC area and New England ended up as Stop & Shop. Basically any Ahold chain could move into a vacated Bradlees for free. Maybe either Edwards, Super G, or Stop & Shop could have coexisted with Giant in NJ peacefully, because lots of Bradlees stores were in poorer rural areas, while the stores known for most of their life as Super G were in areas known for their variety of malls, shopping centers, etc and higher incomes. I get the feeling Giant will someday swallow the ShopRite stores in the Philly area, and perhaps Stop & Shop will swallow the ShopRite stores in the NYC area, or perhaps Giant will swallow Stop & Shop. As for Kroger, maybe they will move north (at least to have a more complete coverage of Virginia if not to enter Maryland, Delaware, or DC) with an acquisition of either Super G, Safeway, Shoppers, or maybe the Martin's chain in West Virginia and rural Maryland (also in rural VA and DE?) which is the PA Giant chain in all but name. It seems to make no sense that ShopRite is represented so many places in very urban Philadelphia County, while also in mostly rural NJ, but almost nowhere in the PA suburbs of Philly. And Giant has been a traditionally rural PA chain but has stayed out of rural NJ, yet it loves the Philly suburbs in PA.
Kroger bought Harris Teeter, which takes them up to southern Delaware. Harris Teeter will operate as a separate division, but owned by Kroger.
Ahold replaced Super G with Giant of Landover in Delaware. They brought in Stop & Shop in South Jersey. Stop & Shop failed quickly. They could have brought in Giant of Landover & did not.
There really was no difference at all between Super G and Giant of Landover. The Super G name was invented in the 90's to allow Giant of Landover to enter PA and avoid confusion with Giant of Carlisle, before Ahold bought Giant of Landover. Sales were dismal at the Super G stores in both PA and NJ, yet Ahold decided to sell the Super G stores in PA to Shop N Save, a chain out of Pittsburgh (when Ahold could have had you-know-what-other-division of itself breathe new life into these stores). Perhaps because of a combination of its cheap-sounding name and no history/brand recognition to give Greater Philly shoppers a frame of reference, Shop N Save also failed miserably in the area. In a strange twist, Acme bailed on their very old and small Norristown store (now a Big Lots) when ShopRite bought the Shop N Save across the street, but Acme bought the former Shop N Save in Eagleville not far away. I think it's an illusion that Giant of Landover and Super G were distinct to the everyday consumer. Super G may have been treated as a separate wing of the company (perhaps due to different distribution center arrangements) and while Super G stores appeared to be much more upscale than standard Giant of Landover stores, they were just larger and had larger selections than the traditional urban Giant of Landover stores. Super G was targeted to high earners in Greater Philly, and was poised to compete with Genuardi's, which in the late 90's ran the supermarkets by which all others in the region were judged. Therefore, the traditional Giant of Landover store would run into a lot of "me too-ism" if brought to Greater Philly. IMO, the Philly region was deprived of quality supermarkets in the 80's up to the standards of those being built in other parts of the USA at the time. Giant and Genuardi's both built some then state-of-the-art stores in the Delaware Valley in the 80's, but most were in the farthest suburbs from Philadelphia County. Both chains gradually expanded closer and closer to the city limits, and Genuardi's was never really a household name in many suburbs until around 1995, nor was Giant until around 2000. The traditional Giant of Landover store format would not be able to wow the Philly area more than the awful Acmes, Pathmarks, and Super Freshes (at the time mostly in refurbished 70's A&P stores) mostly from the 70's that were really showing their age starting in the late 80's, and many of which were never really replaced until a replacement was way overdue. Pathmark especially has gotten away for way too long with letting their ancient, tiny stores rot but stay open. Acme and Super Fresh stores today are both usually either much newer and brighter than the average Pathmark, or even older and smaller than the average Pathmark. I find both Acme and Super Fresh stores, even the newest of both, to be mediocre at best and unacceptable at worst, in terms of everything from selection to prices to size to appearance and condition.
I suppose Ahold feels it would be trademark dilution to mix Giant with Giant. Some people I guess have very strong feelings about one Giant but not the other, and it would create so much confusion if the two divisions merged. Perhaps loyal customers of each of them would abandon both of them, sinking both of them.
I feel sorry for Delaware... it seems like all the supermarkets in that state are fragments of one dying chain or another, which together are a very ugly monster. It would be nice if either Giant (of Carlisle), ShopRite, or Wegmans would open there, but right now ShopRite is the only one of this trio represented in the state, which to be fair has only five or so stores total, and only one in Wilmington. Many of the Acmes in Wilmington are abominable, as are the three out of four stores Super Fresh has in the area (except for the one in Claymont). Pathmark has a store in New Castle, The Fresh Grocer (a small, local chain on its last legs) has a store in the core of Wilmington, and both Safeway and Giant-Landover have one orphaned store each in northern Wilmington, awfully close to the PA state line. I don't know whether it's the small size of DE or whether it's the extreme poverty of DE (the rich corporations based there DON'T count) that are scaring away quality grocers. It's a shame the South, despite its backwardness otherwise, has such a better variety of supermarkets than the North these days. I think of Publix (from Florida), Rouses (from Louisiana), H-E-B (from Texas), Farm Fresh (from Virginia), and Kroger (which is huge in Texas but is from Ohio) as heavenly compared to the morally reprehensible supermarket chains that are dying slow, painful deaths in Greater Philly right now.
Louisiana, also being a very small and very poor state, was in the same boat as Delaware with regard to supermarkets, not long ago. But the introduction of Rouses has changed that. Albertsons is still limping along in Lafayette, but abandoned New Orleans cold turkey. Kroger survives in Sulphur, very close to the Texas border (ironically at a former Albertsons site) but crashed and burned in Baton Rouge many years ago, while H-E-B had one store in Lake Charles for a VERY long time (many decades) but ditched it in the early 2000s as the whole chain moved more upscale, and A&P was found in New Orleans until 2010, even though it was NOWHERE else in the South (excluding Delmarva) or outside the Northeast for that matter except for its Farmer Jack stores in rural Michigan closed in 2007, for over a decade.
Last edited by wardwhirlboromarlpool1955; 07-31-2013 at 10:49 PM..
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,670,113 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by wardwhirlboromarlpool1955
There really was no difference at all between Super G and Giant of Landover. The Super G name was invented in the 90's to allow Giant of Landover to enter PA and avoid confusion with Giant of Carlisle, before Ahold bought Giant of Landover. Sales were dismal at the Super G stores in both PA and NJ, yet Ahold decided to sell the Super G stores in PA to Shop N Save, a chain out of Pittsburgh (when Ahold could have had you-know-what-other-division of itself breathe new life into these stores). Perhaps because of a combination of its cheap-sounding name and no history/brand recognition to give Greater Philly shoppers a frame of reference, Shop N Save also failed miserably in the area. In a strange twist, Acme bailed on their very old and small Norristown store (now a Big Lots) when ShopRite bought the Shop N Save across the street, but Acme bought the former Shop N Save in Eagleville not far away. I think it's an illusion that Giant of Landover and Super G were distinct to the everyday consumer. Super G may have been treated as a separate wing of the company (perhaps due to different distribution center arrangements) and while Super G stores appeared to be much more upscale than standard Giant of Landover stores, they were just larger and had larger selections than the traditional urban Giant of Landover stores. Super G was targeted to high earners in Greater Philly, and was poised to compete with Genuardi's, which in the late 90's ran the supermarkets by which all others in the region were judged. Therefore, the traditional Giant of Landover store would run into a lot of "me too-ism" if brought to Greater Philly. IMO, the Philly region was deprived of quality supermarkets in the 80's up to the standards of those being built in other parts of the USA at the time. Giant and Genuardi's both built some then state-of-the-art stores in the Delaware Valley in the 80's, but most were in the farthest suburbs from Philadelphia County. Both chains gradually expanded closer and closer to the city limits, and Genuardi's was never really a household name in many suburbs until around 1995, nor was Giant until around 2000. The traditional Giant of Landover store format would not be able to wow the Philly area more than the awful Acmes, Pathmarks, and Super Freshes (at the time mostly in refurbished 70's A&P stores) mostly from the 70's that were really showing their age starting in the late 80's, and many of which were never really replaced until a replacement was way overdue. Pathmark especially has gotten away for way too long with letting their ancient, tiny stores rot but stay open. Acme and Super Fresh stores today are both usually either much newer and brighter than the average Pathmark, or even older and smaller than the average Pathmark. I find both Acme and Super Fresh stores, even the newest of both, to be mediocre at best and unacceptable at worst, in terms of everything from selection to prices to size to appearance and condition.
I suppose Ahold feels it would be trademark dilution to mix Giant with Giant. Some people I guess have very strong feelings about one Giant but not the other, and it would create so much confusion if the two divisions merged. Perhaps loyal customers of each of them would abandon both of them, sinking both of them.
I feel sorry for Delaware... it seems like all the supermarkets in that state are fragments of one dying chain or another, which together are a very ugly monster. It would be nice if either Giant (of Carlisle), ShopRite, or Wegmans would open there, but right now ShopRite is the only one of this trio represented in the state, which to be fair has only five or so stores total, and only one in Wilmington. Many of the Acmes in Wilmington are abominable, as are the three out of four stores Super Fresh has in the area (except for the one in Claymont). Pathmark has a store in New Castle, The Fresh Grocer (a small, local chain on its last legs) has a store in the core of Wilmington, and both Safeway and Giant-Landover have one orphaned store each in northern Wilmington, awfully close to the PA state line. I don't know whether it's the small size of DE or whether it's the extreme poverty of DE (the rich corporations based there DON'T count) that are scaring away quality grocers. It's a shame the South, despite its backwardness otherwise, has such a better variety of supermarkets than the North these days. I think of Publix (from Florida), Rouses (from Louisiana), H-E-B (from Texas), Farm Fresh (from Virginia), and Kroger (which is huge in Texas but is from Ohio) as heavenly compared to the morally reprehensible supermarket chains that are dying slow, painful deaths in Greater Philly right now.
Louisiana, also being a very small and very poor state, was in the same boat as Delaware with regard to supermarkets, not long ago. But the introduction of Rouses has changed that. Albertsons is still limping along in Lafayette, but abandoned New Orleans cold turkey. Kroger survives in Sulphur, very close to the Texas border (ironically at a former Albertsons site) but crashed and burned in Baton Rouge many years ago, while H-E-B had one store in Lake Charles for a VERY long time (many decades) but ditched it in the early 2000s as the whole chain moved more upscale, and A&P was found in New Orleans until 2010, even though it was NOWHERE else in the South (excluding Delmarva) or outside the Northeast for that matter except for its Farmer Jack stores in rural Michigan closed in 2007, for over a decade.
Super G was the upscale division of Giant of Landover.
Super G was the upscale division of Giant of Landover.
wardwhirlboromarlpool1955 was right. SuperG was Giant-Landover,MD. It was just bannered SuperG to avoid confusion with Giant-PA. A Cherry Hill SuperG store wasn't more upscale than a Bethesda Giant-MD store.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wardwhirlboromarlpool1955
I feel sorry for Delaware... .
Doesn't Delaware actually have it better? It still has Safeway, Giant-MD, Food Lion which are prevalent from the Baltimore/DC region, and a mix of chains, primarily ShopRite, Acme, A&P/Pathmark from the Philly region. It has more competition that way being at the crossroad of the two regions. Anyways, Delaware is OT to So. NJ.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,670,113 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by avg12
wardwhirlboromarlpool1955 was right. SuperG was Giant-Landover,MD. It was just bannered SuperG to avoid confusion with Giant-PA. A Cherry Hill SuperG store wasn't more upscale than a Bethesda Giant-MD store.
Doesn't Delaware actually have it better? It still has Safeway, Giant-MD, Food Lion which are prevalent from the Baltimore/DC region, and a mix of chains, primarily ShopRite, Acme, A&P/Pathmark from the Philly region. It has more competition that way being at the crossroad of the two regions. Anyways, Delaware is OT to So. NJ.
I worked for Super G for a while. Everyone in the store knew that it was the upscale division. Giant's prices were comparable with Pathmark. Super G's prices were higher.
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