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Seriously, are you that guy? Someone calls you a name or harasses you and you physically attack them?
Absolutely not, but I also don't fear the physical aspect, which allows me to deal with the conflict head on. I guarantee you that 99.999% of the time I would simply ignore or walk away from someone calling me a name. However, you mentioned harassment and that starts to cross the line. Would I outright attack someone for harassing me, no. Would I fight back with words and defend myself verbally, of course. However, I am not afraid of the consequence of defending myself verbally if the other person decides to make it physical. It's the fear of physical confrontation that keeps many complacent and willing to put up with harassing and bullying behavior. Eliminate the fear of what might happen if you stand up for yourself and have confidence in your ability to do so and it will be the rare occurrence that fighting is even a possibility.
Absolutely not, but I also don't fear the physical aspect, which allows me to deal with the conflict head on. I guarantee you that 99.999% of the time I would simply ignore or walk away from someone calling me a name. However, you mentioned harassment and that starts to cross the line. Would I outright attack someone for harassing me, no. Would I fight back with words and defend myself verbally, of course. However, I am not afraid of the consequence of defending myself verbally if the other person decides to make it physical. It's the fear of physical confrontation that keeps many complacent and willing to put up with harassing and bullying behavior. Eliminate the fear of what might happen if you stand up for yourself and have confidence in your ability to do so and it will be the rare occurrence that fighting is even a possibility.
You have nothing to support that but your opinion and one would hope you admit that an opinion is hardly objective.
Many studies find that victims "fighting back" tends to escalate the violence and can lead to truly dangerous situations for more than just the victim.
And a little info on cyberbullying and its prevalence by most children (58% admitted to it) as well as the escalation to real life violence.
Cyber Bullying: Creating A Culture Of Respect In A Cyber World - Research and Read Books, Journals, Articles at Questia Online Library (http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&se=gglsc&d=5008733314 - broken link)
Most parents tend to think that this kind of bullying is uncommon and that their child would never do something this mean. Unfortunately not so, according to Alane Fagin, the executive director of Child Abuse Prevention Services (CAPS). On-line bullying has become very common and is particularly easy for girls to do. This is an example of relational aggression where girls use relationships as weapons. Imagine, she says, a group of girls sitting around a computer. The person being instant messaged thinks she is only talking to one person. Before she knows it, the "target" has said something negative about one of the group. The group then starts gossiping about her. "This leads to social isolation," says Fagin (cited in Wolfe, 2004).
In general, girls inflict virtual abuse more than boys through instant messaging, online conversations, and e-mails. A survey of girls ages 12 to 18 found that 74% of adolescent girls spend the majority of their time online in chat rooms or sending instant messages and e-mail (Migliore, 2003).
interesting read and a very very good example of cyber bullying... this goes on to adulthood among women... it does.
You have nothing to support that but your opinion and one would hope you admit that an opinion is hardly objective.
Many studies find that victims "fighting back" tends to escalate the violence and can lead to truly dangerous situations for more than just the victim
I disagree with this. We are talking about kids. There is no serious danger or violence in 99% of the cases.
If the bullying victim is willing to fight back over bullying at school, the fight will get broken up within a minute, and both students will get Saturday detention or whatever the punishment is nowadays.
If the bully knows that the victim is willing to fight back and cause him to get into trouble, he will think twice. And if he does not think twice, he will eventually get expelled from the school for getting in too many fights.
I disagree with this. We are talking about kids. There is no serious danger or violence in 99% of the cases.
If the bullying victim is willing to fight back over bullying at school, the fight will get broken up within a minute, and both students will get Saturday detention or whatever the punishment is nowadays.
If the bully knows that the victim is willing to fight back and cause him to get into trouble, he will think twice. And if he does not think twice, he will eventually get expelled from the school for getting in too many fights.
Do you have any sources to support your position, or are you just "winging it" ?
Your line of reasoning is flawed because bullying is defined by proactive aggression, and part of that proactive behavior involves avoiding scenarios that work to the bully's disadvantage, including prolonged one on one fist fights. The bully knows his target is probably willing to fight back -- and therefore makes sure that the target is not able to do so effectively.
My own childhood is proof. The one time I finally flipped my lid and beat a kid to hell was when they stopped making fun of me. When you're in the 1st grade, it's hard to be proactive for something that's going to last the course of your grade school tenure.
That is called "anecdote", not "proof". What would have happened if the other kid beat you to hell instead ? Or worse, effortlessly beat the pulp out of you in front of your peers, laughing all the way, while you "flipped your lid" ?
If the other kid was a genuine bully, he would have picked a fight that he could easily win.
I'm pretty sure did , if your stressed out and you have ton of stuff on your plate like College and something like this happens it could be the one thing that will push you over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714
Did you know Tyler?
I did not know Tyler, but I've reviewed a decent portion of the case, and a lot of things don't add up to me.
What happened here wasn't classic bullying. What Tyler's roommate was doing was goofing on Tyler by getting people to see something that might have been outside of their sexual comfort level. Kind of like someone sending you a blind link to lemonparty or something like that.
It doesn't excuse Tyler's roommate for what he did - and it was a scumbag move - BUT:
From what I've read, Tyler seemed pretty open with his choices and his sexuality, given the fact that he had a profile on a gay cam chat website. So this wasn't like his roommated "outed" him, which was one of the angles the news media was going with.
Tyler also seemed annoyed by what his roommate did, as evidenced by his posts on the other forum, but not to the point of suicide.
The missing piece here is the person that Tyler was "dating".
From the accounts given, Tyler's date was an older man who wasn't a Rutgers student. So my question is, why is someone who is older, and presumably, has a place of their own to live in, comes back to a college kid's dorm to hook up?
Answer: Tyler's date is still in the closet, and possibly hiding their sexuality from their friends/family/wife/loved ones.
The theory I thought of, is that Tyler's date/boyfriend? rejected him upon hearing what the roommate had done. While Tyler was pretty open, the lover was not. Tyler is heartbroken, and that's what caused the suicide.
In all of this - NO ONE has stepped forward as the person that Tyler was with that night. You'd think, if it was a deep, caring relationship, that someone would step forward. At the very least, it would be a payday in a civil lawsuit. But not a word - so the person that Tyler was with is still in the closet and hiding their sexuality.
Of course, I could be completely wrong, but not enough facts in this case add up - at least, not the way the news is handling it.
I did not know Tyler, but I've reviewed a decent portion of the case, and a lot of things don't add up to me.
What happened here wasn't classic bullying. What Tyler's roommate was doing was goofing on Tyler by getting people to see something that might have been outside of their sexual comfort level. Kind of like someone sending you a blind link to lemonparty or something like that.
It doesn't excuse Tyler's roommate for what he did - and it was a scumbag move - BUT:
From what I've read, Tyler seemed pretty open with his choices and his sexuality, given the fact that he had a profile on a gay cam chat website. So this wasn't like his roommated "outed" him, which was one of the angles the news media was going with.
Tyler also seemed annoyed by what his roommate did, as evidenced by his posts on the other forum, but not to the point of suicide.
The missing piece here is the person that Tyler was "dating".
From the accounts given, Tyler's date was an older man who wasn't a Rutgers student. So my question is, why is someone who is older, and presumably, has a place of their own to live in, comes back to a college kid's dorm to hook up?
Answer: Tyler's date is still in the closet, and possibly hiding their sexuality from their friends/family/wife/loved ones.
The theory I thought of, is that Tyler's date/boyfriend? rejected him upon hearing what the roommate had done. While Tyler was pretty open, the lover was not. Tyler is heartbroken, and that's what caused the suicide.
In all of this - NO ONE has stepped forward as the person that Tyler was with that night. You'd think, if it was a deep, caring relationship, that someone would step forward. At the very least, it would be a payday in a civil lawsuit. But not a word - so the person that Tyler was with is still in the closet and hiding their sexuality.
Of course, I could be completely wrong, but not enough facts in this case add up - at least, not the way the news is handling it.
OMFG what is wrong with you straight ppl.....always blaming the gay victim....
Clearly Tyler was still in the closet , probably due to a very religious family.
Tyler's roommate wasn't bullying or goofing but invading his privacy with a camera of his online sex with a one - night stand guy. The Roommate appeared to be doing it more then once. Gay people just like Straights like our privacy to , its very scary and un-nerving to be boardcasted having sex. This was not like sending a blind link to someone this was something else. But i find a bit disturbing that your judging him by his internet posts , i didn't know him personally but still show some respect.
You seem to be making excuses for Tyler's roommate and i find that very offensive.
The guy who was one - night standing with Tyler is probably married and has children but is closeted himself. So you will never see him come out , because that would destroy him.
I think Tyler was asking for help with his roommate and was getting ignored by ppl. Which is common for gay ppl , like i was bully for 3 years and no one helped. He probably thought he was going to be outed to his family and teachers and neighborhood and that , and slowly he got to the point where he thought it wasn't going to end and he killed himself.
A gay person may be open to his Friends , but closeted to his Family and workplace. Its very common , ikno alot of gay people who are not out to there family , but are to there friends and co-workers. Its a very sensitive topic and takes alot of time and at the right time to come out to Family. I know guys who are in there mid 30s and still closeted.
Tyler was annoyed by the fact that his roommate was broadcasting his sex online , it was posted on a twitter feed. That was probably the beginning , and since Tyler was still in the Closet to his Family that whats drove him to Suicide.
The facts in this case add up nicely if your gay , but as a straight looking in it would probably look odd. Gay Culture is very different form straight culture , its more open and wild.....so to a Straight person it might appear to be a inappropriate relationship , but to a gay person like me its just business as normal. But i have my preferences , i date within my close age range. It sounds like Tyler was attracted to Hawks , which are the Cougars of the Gay world......
Absolutely ridiculous - this poor excuse for legislation, as well as some of the responses in here on the necessity for a child to defend himself from abuse, not only in school, but everywhere and throughout his life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714
You have nothing to support that but your opinion and one would hope you admit that an opinion is hardly objective.
Many studies find that victims "fighting back" tends to escalate the violence and can lead to truly dangerous situations for more than just the victim.
And a little info on cyberbullying and its prevalence by most children (58% admitted to it) as well as the escalation to real life violence.
Cyber Bullying: Creating A Culture Of Respect In A Cyber World - Research and Read Books, Journals, Articles at Questia Online Library (http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&se=gglsc&d=5008733314 - broken link)
Frankly, anyone who teaches their children to allow themselves to be attacked and not respond with physical defense of any kind, is raising a kid who's going to grow up to be a pathetic coward.
You're creating human livestock for bullies who love NOTHING MORE than yuppie new age, granola-munching parents who teach their kids to lie down and accept a beating.
No honor, decency, self-respect, or balls. Absolutely shameful and sad for the children growing up in this PC world where it's better to not respond to a malicious attack because that would be "wrong".
A lot of the victims are pathetic because they mirror their parents. I feel sorry for these children.
Do you have any sources to support your position, or are you just "winging it" ?
Your line of reasoning is flawed because bullying is defined by proactive aggression, and part of that proactive behavior involves avoiding scenarios that work to the bully's disadvantage, including prolonged one on one fist fights. The bully knows his target is probably willing to fight back -- and therefore makes sure that the target is not able to do so effectively.
No one really knows what the statistics are on bullying. However, pretty much everyone has been bullied or bullied someone else at some point in their life. Given the fact it is so common and widespread, it's not a far stretch to believe that the cases sensationalized by the media or that turn tragic account for an incredibly small percentage of actual bullying incidents. The vast majority of bullying can be prevented by people growing a backbone and standing up for themselves. My theory/opinion would be that the more extreme cases of bullying happen because the victims were the type to always roll over and play dead to the far more common types of bullying.
As for the Tyler Clementi angle, I don't think what the roommate did consitutues bullying. I do believe it was a crime, but it wasn't bullying at least according to the classical definition.
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