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While the anti-freedom wingnuts waste their time on attempting to construct useless laws that will never pass, schools have woken up and are doing the sensible thing:
This adds jobs also. I think every school should have 2 armed guards with walkie-talkies and Iphones with video links to the CCTV cameras. Yes, I'll pay the tax hike to cover this.
I don't want to hear about "armed camps". The guards can be in plain clothes and their weapons can be concealed in a body holster so as not to destroy the childrens delicate psyches (Israeli children seem to grow up OK surrounded by rational protection).
Forgetting defective mentally ill psychopaths, this also helps with keeping common criminals, druggies, vagrants, and other riff-raff on notice that they need to stay away from schools. It should be common knowledge that when you walk into a school, there are trained people there who can shoot you down if you attempt any mayhem.
After the Columbine tragedy then President Bill Clinton had the Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) program. An aspect of this program was money for metal detectors and armed cops in schools.
It wasn't until the NRA head, in 2012, suggested armed cops that many went ape sh*t over the idea.
While the anti-freedom wingnuts waste their time on attempting to construct useless laws that will never pass, schools have woken up and are doing the sensible thing:
This adds jobs also. I think every school should have 2 armed guards with walkie-talkies and Iphones with video links to the CCTV cameras. Yes, I'll pay the tax hike to cover this.
I don't want to hear about "armed camps". The guards can be in plain clothes and their weapons can be concealed in a body holster so as not to destroy the childrens delicate psyches (Israeli children seem to grow up OK surrounded by rational protection).
Forgetting defective mentally ill psychopaths, this also helps with keeping common criminals, druggies, vagrants, and other riff-raff on notice that they need to stay away from schools. It should be common knowledge that when you walk into a school, there are trained people there who can shoot you down if you attempt any mayhem.
So you're for more govt. jobs with good pay & benefits? Ayn Rand is doing backflips in hell.
While the anti-freedom wingnuts waste their time on attempting to construct useless laws that will never pass, schools have woken up and are doing the sensible thing:
This adds jobs also. I think every school should have 2 armed guards with walkie-talkies and Iphones with video links to the CCTV cameras. Yes, I'll pay the tax hike to cover this.
I don't want to hear about "armed camps". The guards can be in plain clothes and their weapons can be concealed in a body holster so as not to destroy the childrens delicate psyches (Israeli children seem to grow up OK surrounded by rational protection).
Forgetting defective mentally ill psychopaths, this also helps with keeping common criminals, druggies, vagrants, and other riff-raff on notice that they need to stay away from schools. It should be common knowledge that when you walk into a school, there are trained people there who can shoot you down if you attempt any mayhem.
The above are not going in shooting up schools. Until New Town CT most if not all school shootings were at the hands of a student who brought weapons to school, so yes metal detectors may help. Armed guards are a false sense of security...what's next then armed guards at move theatres, shopping malls???
A person who is unstable and on a mission will not always use a gun...yes a terrorist, but McVeigh blew up the federal building killing children as well with fertilizer and racing fluid...
We can not even remotely protect everyone from acts like this....
We are not Israel and hopefully never get to that point!
Armed guards and even police officers at schools will do nothing to stop massacres. Since apparently that is the entire point, as proposed, of having these people in schools I see it as a ridiculous expenditure.
We actually have evidence of the impact of an armed guard at schools during massacres. At Columbine in 1999 the school had an armed deputy on campus from the Jefferson County Sheriffs Department. He engaged Eric Harris outside the building but was unable to stop him. A second officer on the scene in minutes also engaged Harris, failing to stop him. Harris and Klebold went on to kill 15 and wounded an addtional 23.
Apparently the NRA forgot about this fact when they were preaching about "good guys with guns".
Armed guards and even police officers at schools will do nothing to stop massacres. Since apparently that is the entire point, as proposed, of having these people in schools I see it as a ridiculous expenditure.
We actually have evidence of the impact of an armed guard at schools during massacres. At Columbine in 1999 the school had an armed deputy on campus from the Jefferson County Sheriffs Department. He engaged Eric Harris outside the building but was unable to stop him. A second officer on the scene in minutes also engaged Harris, failing to stop him. Harris and Klebold went on to kill 15 and wounded an addtional 23.
Apparently the NRA forgot about this fact when they were preaching about "good guys with guns".
you are giving one example and expect that to be accepted as what would happen anytime an armed guard is in a school when an attacker enters?
its good to have real world examples, but one example proves nothing. im not really a fan of having an armed guard at some checkpoint, id assume an attacker would just kill him first. also, armed guards in school wont stop an attacker, it may just motivate him to attack another place. which is great for people who have armed guards, but doesnt impact the overall statistics.
Armed guards and even police officers at schools will do nothing to stop massacres. Since apparently that is the entire point, as proposed, of having these people in schools I see it as a ridiculous expenditure.
We actually have evidence of the impact of an armed guard at schools during massacres. At Columbine in 1999 the school had an armed deputy on campus from the Jefferson County Sheriffs Department. He engaged Eric Harris outside the building but was unable to stop him. A second officer on the scene in minutes also engaged Harris, failing to stop him. Harris and Klebold went on to kill 15 and wounded an addtional 23.
Apparently the NRA forgot about this fact when they were preaching about "good guys with guns".
you are giving one example and expect that to be accepted as what would happen anytime an armed guard is in a school when an attacker enters?
its good to have real world examples, but one example proves nothing. im not really a fan of having an armed guard at some checkpoint, id assume an attacker would just kill him first. also, armed guards in school wont stop an attacker, it may just motivate him to attack another place. which is great for people who have armed guards, but doesnt impact the overall statistics.
I agree. One example proves nothing. However, the NRA is preaching that "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". That stance is entirely predicated on stopping massacres like what happened in Newtown. In most cases of massacres there were no armed guards or police present. However, we do have examples of where they were present, yet were ineffectual.
Among recent memory we have Columbine as well as Virginia Tech (which has an entire police department) and Fort Hood (which certainly has a large number of well armed 'guards'). What I can't find is any evidence of an attempted massacre that was prevented by an armed guard or police officer confronting the perpetrator before they committed the act. There have been something like 63 mass shootings over the past 30 years. Many of them have occurred in places where security both armed and otherwise were present. I have yet (despite a lot of searching) discovered a case where armed anyone prevented a massacre from happening. The only stories of prevention are related to police acting on information to effect an arrest before someone carries out such an act.
We seem to be in agreement that this is a pointless exercise to place armed police or security into schools solely to prevent massacres, even if you don't agree with my reasoning.
We seem to be in agreement that this is a pointless exercise to place armed police or security into schools solely to prevent massacres, even if you don't agree with my reasoning.
yep, i dont think its a great idea. its worth discussing just like any other. i dont have any solid ideas that im willing to defend as if i think thats the solution. i do like the idea of making sure carry permits are attainable in every state and allowing teachers/admin to carry if they have those permits. i think this is generally a good thing to have everywhere. if i had a gun when i was grocery shopping at aldi, there is at least one person would could possibly stop an attacker.
yep, i dont think its a great idea. its worth discussing just like any other. i dont have any solid ideas that im willing to defend as if i think thats the solution. i do like the idea of making sure carry permits are attainable in every state and allowing teachers/admin to carry if they have those permits. i think this is generally a good thing to have everywhere. if i had a gun when i was grocery shopping at aldi, there is at least one person would could possibly stop an attacker.
The only problem there is that statistically...remember we like statistics not anecdotes...there is no statistical evidence that people with carry permits have any impact on crime rates or crime prevention. If anything, there is strong correlation to the contrary. I say correlation, because states with permissive carry laws also tend to be the least restrictive in terms of sales. I challenge you to statistically prove that prevalence of carry permits and loose regulation of carry permits has an impact on crime rates. I tried to do it. Many in the gun forum tried to do it in a thread I previously linked. None of us could do it. It kept coming back that the correlative evidence points to it being "not a deterrent" and may actually result in higher violent crime rates.
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