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Wow, talk about revisionist history. Yeah, it was I-280 which caused the Newark riots. ROTFL.
You can laugh at me all you want. It doesn't change the fact that I'm right. I didn't say highway construction was fully responsible I said it was a factor, and it was. I've studied urban planning, I know what I'm talking about.
Also - there is very little good housing stock in Newark. The gentrification happening in Brooklyn et al was started by artists moving into brownstones that had fallen into disrepair. No such thing exists in Newark.
You're placing way too much stock in brownstones. While they are, without question, a desirable form of living for urban pioneers, it's simply only ONE aspect of attractive living. Folks are not only going to move to brownstones (as evidenced by Newark's recent developments downtown). Additionally, what doesn't exist can indeed be built (like Teacher's Village).
I mean, what about JC's residential developments on the immediate Hudson that are nowhere near brownstone architecture? Things like 77 Hudson, Trump, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletKnightJet
Not going to happen until places closer to the city gentrify.
There is a huge swath of JC with much better NYC access that still has to go up, and then Harrison, and then Newark.
There is a pattern of PATH stops...Hoboken was first, then Newport, then (and currently) Grove...next will be JSQ and then Harrison and then and only then will be Newark.
And for a while it will only be the Ironbound and places close to to Newark Penn.
Jersey City is also going to overtake Newark population wise, if it hasn't yet, and much more focus will rightfully shift there as it's in a much better position for innumerable reasons to be NJ's main city.
It's true that JC is a more favorable position to gentrify (further) than Newark. However, there's numerous residential (market rate) development going on in downtown Newark as we speak that makes your statement inaccurate. Newark can build even as JC continues to fill out. What can be said is that Newark will probably fill out that much more as JC fills out and prices continue to climb (which has pretty much started happening anyway).
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhsx1187
Name one reason why JC should be NJ's main city. There are so many disadvantages to JC with only one advantage, New York being a quick swim away
JC definitely has a lot going for it, but it doesn't have enough in other respects to be NJ's main city. It's far more attached to Manhattan (and dependent on) than Newark is, and would literally have to Manhattanize to reach 500k.
- It already has a significantly gentrified population
- It has much more 24-7 transportation to NYC, and overall more NYC access
- It has a vibrant restaurant and bar scene
- It remains active on the weekends
- It is surrounded by NYC, Hoboken, and Bayonne....versus Irvington, Elizabeth, and the Oranges
- It has better highway access
- It is more diverse than Newark
- It has significant tourism advantage with nice, big, clean hotels and attractions like Liberty State Park, Ellis Island, and the Statue of Liberty
- It has better shopping (like Newport Mall and the surrounding big box stores)
- It's name isn't synonomous with rioting
- It has a beautiful waterfront
Could probably go on...
-Wall Street West means very little....
-Parts of Newark like the Ironbound and Downtown are starting to gentrify.
-Newark has 24/7 Access to NYC via PATH and Buses , its really no different then JC
-JC does have a bigger bar and restaurant scene for now , but give Newark a few years to catch up
- Elizabeth is starting to see reinvestment , along with the Oranges and Irvington to a lesser extent
- Newark has access to 95 , 78 , 280 , US 1/9 , 22 , Route 27 , 21 , Jersey City only has 78 , 1/9 and 440
-I'll give Jersey City more Diversity for now , although both cities are seeing a shift in their demographics
-Newark has numerous new and renovated hotels with plans for a few more , and has attractions like the Ironbound , Branch Brook Park , Ironbound , Newark Museum and Prudential Center
-Big Box Shopping and Big Malls don't make a shopping scene , Mom and pop and non chain stores that cater to the middle class do
-Only ignorant people link the Name with the 60s riots same with the other cities
-Newark will have a beautiful Riverfront Promenade by the end of the decade
Things you left out...
-Newark is an important city on New Jersey's Rail Network
-Newark will be the Intersection for 10 Intercity , 13 Regional Rail , 4 High Speed Rail and 4 Freight Rail Services by 2030
-75% of the city will have access to Rail Transit by 2035
-Most of the revitalized areas will not flood in a worst case hurricane
- It already has a significantly gentrified population
- It has much more 24-7 transportation to NYC, and overall more NYC access
- It has a vibrant restaurant and bar scene
- It remains active on the weekends
- It is surrounded by NYC, Hoboken, and Bayonne....versus Irvington, Elizabeth, and the Oranges
- It has better highway access
- It is more diverse than Newark
- It has significant tourism advantage with nice, big, clean hotels and attractions like Liberty State Park, Ellis Island, and the Statue of Liberty
- It has better shopping (like Newport Mall and the surrounding big box stores)
- It's name isn't synonomous with rioting
- It has a beautiful waterfront
Could probably go on...
I asked about advantages JC has over Newark in becoming NJ's main city and I am still waiting
- The only major wall st firm JC has is Goldman and I have seen articles that allude to Goldman wanting out of JC.
- The only thing JC has in terms of transportation to NYC over Newark is Ferrys. On the flip side Newark has NJT and Amtrak
- Since Morristown and hoboken have a vibrant bar and restaurant scene should they be considered NJ's main city? The restaurant scene in Newark will eventually catch up.
- ^see above
- Harrison will be much nicer in a few years with all the redevelopment but for now Newark does not have a Hoboken near it. And Bayonne is not anything to write home about. Anyway being NJ's main city has nothing to do with what surrounds it but rather the city itself.
- That is just blatantly false, Getting to downtown JC is miserable and congested at all times of day. Newark on the other hand has a plethora of Highways connecting it the the rest of the state. It has the turnpike 280, 78, 1/9 and a number of state highways. JC only has 78, 1/9 and 440
- First why does diversity matter in terms of being the main city. Second, as Newark improves whites will move in and it will become more diverse. The same thing happened in JC.
- Newark has 2 new hotels downtown but many of the JC hotels are only there to serve as NYC overflow hotels. Yes JC does have liberty state park and Liberty science center but I hate to break it to you, Ellis Island and the statue of Liberty are both in NY. Newark has parks too just not state parks. They are working on a river front park and have branch brook park. Newark also has a major cathedral, NJPAC, the Museum, and the Rock.
- Since when is a mall and big box stores better shopping. In all honestly neither are that good.
- NY, London, and LA all had fairly major riots, does that make you think riot when you thing about either? No it doesn't once Newark improves you will all but forget that the riots happened in the first place.
- JC does have a beautiful waterfont, The hudson is beautiful but then again so does hoboken. A waterfront should not make a city major or minor. Almost every major city has some sort of waterway. Newark is improving theirs drastically and it too soon will be beautiful.
- I have yet to hear one compelling argument but please do go on
I asked about advantages JC has over Newark in becoming NJ's main city and I am still waiting
- The only major wall st firm JC has is Goldman and I have seen articles that allude to Goldman wanting out of JC.
- The only thing JC has in terms of transportation to NYC over Newark is Ferrys. On the flip side Newark has NJT and Amtrak
- Since Morristown and hoboken have a vibrant bar and restaurant scene should they be considered NJ's main city? The restaurant scene in Newark will eventually catch up.
- ^see above
- Harrison will be much nicer in a few years with all the redevelopment but for now Newark does not have a Hoboken near it. And Bayonne is not anything to write home about. Anyway being NJ's main city has nothing to do with what surrounds it but rather the city itself.
- That is just blatantly false, Getting to downtown JC is miserable and congested at all times of day. Newark on the other hand has a plethora of Highways connecting it the the rest of the state. It has the turnpike 280, 78, 1/9 and a number of state highways. JC only has 78, 1/9 and 440
- First why does diversity matter in terms of being the main city. Second, as Newark improves whites will move in and it will become more diverse. The same thing happened in JC.
- Newark has 2 new hotels downtown but many of the JC hotels are only there to serve as NYC overflow hotels. Yes JC does have liberty state park and Liberty science center but I hate to break it to you, Ellis Island and the statue of Liberty are both in NY. Newark has parks too just not state parks. They are working on a river front park and have branch brook park. Newark also has a major cathedral, NJPAC, the Museum, and the Rock.
- Since when is a mall and big box stores better shopping. In all honestly neither are that good.
- NY, London, and LA all had fairly major riots, does that make you think riot when you thing about either? No it doesn't once Newark improves you will all but forget that the riots happened in the first place.
- JC does have a beautiful waterfont, The hudson is beautiful but then again so does hoboken. A waterfront should not make a city major or minor. Almost every major city has some sort of waterway. Newark is improving theirs drastically and it too soon will be beautiful.
- I have yet to hear one compelling argument but please do go on
What reason is there to take a potshot at Bayonne? It is significantly nicer than any city that surrounds Newark. To say that JC doesn't have easy access to Ellis Island (which is half JC) and the Statue of Liberty is just not genuine. But neither of those things make a city anyway.
The real fight is whether or not JC and Newark's non-downtown areas can become anything decent. For the time being the southern two-thirds of JC are primarily awful and Newark has huge pockets of bad neighborhoods as well. Personally I think Newark will get it's act together first in that department, JC's government completely ignores everything that isn't the downtown. I know, I live in Bayonne and the worst thing about Bayonne is being close to Greenville JC.
JC will continue to be surrounded by nice areas (Hoboken, Manhattan, Bayonne) while Newark will be mixed (Irvington, Oranges, Belleville, Bloomfield, Kearny, Harrison). But Newark's location is much better for transportation.
- It already has a significantly gentrified population
- It has much more 24-7 transportation to NYC, and overall more NYC access
- It has a vibrant restaurant and bar scene
- It remains active on the weekends
- It is surrounded by NYC, Hoboken, and Bayonne....versus Irvington, Elizabeth, and the Oranges
- It has better highway access
- It is more diverse than Newark
- It has significant tourism advantage with nice, big, clean hotels and attractions like Liberty State Park, Ellis Island, and the Statue of Liberty
- It has better shopping (like Newport Mall and the surrounding big box stores)
- It's name isn't synonomous with rioting
- It has a beautiful waterfront
Could probably go on...
These only really seem like reasons why a New Yorker would pick JC over Newark, not why JC should be NJ's main city.
I don't want to attack the list (hard to type that format on my phone), but one thing I have to point out is that JC absolutely does not better highway access. In fact, it doesn't even have better regional rail (unless your goal is always to get to NYC). It DOES have better local rail though.
Yeah, that sucked. NJ wouldn't help the then YankeeNets with the move out of Meadowlands, and when YankeeNets sold the two teams we almost lost both.
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