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I was going to post the same thing about the Tipping Point. Goetz would have gotten a different reaction from the public today.
Also, only one of the men asked/told Goetz to give him $5. The other men were standing there and Goetz shot all of them. As was mentioned earlier, one of the guys, who hadn't done anything, tried to run away and Goetz shot him in the back. There was also a stray bullet and the other people on the train were so freak out, they tried to run and get out of there and people were trampled. Goetz lost it and was just shooting without the proper concern for people around him. What if your wife or child had been shot during his meltdown.
Later when Goetz gave his statement to the police, he said he wished he had more bullets so he could have shot them some more. He also said he wished he could bore their eyes out. That guy had issues and he actually got out of serving in the army, previous to the incident, because he "faked" a mental problem... or not. It was a bad situation all around.
Yeah, that's an understatement. It was a bad day to try to get five bucks offa HIM.
From this documentary i'm watching, they didn't even rob him. One just calmly asked him for 5 dollars and he decided to shoot them.
you can watch it here
Hulu - Aftermath with William Shatner: Bernhard Goetz - Watch the full episode now. (http://www.hulu.com/watch/169734/aftermath-with-william-shatner-bernhard-goetz - broken link)
well we dont know whats the truth as far as his life and being pennyless but whether he is or he isnt its still a crappy way to have to live, working off the books ,hiding assets. believe me this debacle ruined his life.
the point is that anything you do in self-defense can have devastating civil consequences for the good guy.
i had posted about 2 months ago about how my wife and i were accosted in ally pond park while photographing it.
a guy walked directly in my face as i tried to go around him on the path. he starts saying something about the cameras and getting more beligerant in his voice.
marilyn starts screaming,he walks away and goes in her direction as shes screaming help (no one payed any attention ) i picked up a club and went towards him.
he now stops going towards her and comes back towards me and starts saying how im going to find out now what he has in his pack.
my mind is racing a thousand times a second as i try to decide whether to start hitting him with the club now or wait.
i waited and he starts now muttering about hes calling the cops because im threatning him.
well we still dont know what to make out of it but the point was he was either stoned or something wasnt quite right upstairs.
had i beaten him prematurely i could have had some civil suite against me as well,maybe even criminal .
everything in our law is an eye for an eye.
he verbally started to threaten me but hadnt grabbed the camera yet, but i introduced the first weapon ,a club.
now im the bad guy. in fact if he tried to steal our cameras that was larceny. but if i introduced a gun to stop him then now im threatning his life while he only is committing larceny.
im well familiar with new yorks self defense laws and they work nothing like most folks think.
do you know new york is a must retreat state? that means if you confront bad guys on your lawn or property with a gun and try to thwart an attack on you or your family you can be arrested? thats what happened to that guy in long island 2 months ago.
new york law says you must retreat into your house. you can wait for the bad guys to enter and then blow them away but the bottom line is they have to break in to get you. you cant bring the fight to them. nor can you display a weapon when the bad guys have not displayed one yet.
blow any of new yorks laws and you can find yourself in jail, spending tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands on lawyers or be found innocent criminally but loose everything you own or ever will own in a civil suite.
everything has to weighed against the consequence . we all like to say its better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6 but sometimes the misery that follows for the innocent guy makes death the better option lol.
i had a guy in our community driveway break into the cars every few weeks. after a while i stopped locking the door,didnt put a radio back in and that was that. at one point i was going to put a silent pager on the car . the plan was to surprise him and catch him. but then i thought about it and realized if it turned ugly and i introduced a weapon it would cost me 50k to just be found innocent so i decided it wasnt worth it and just let him go away on his own.
Last edited by mathjak107; 12-24-2010 at 03:14 AM..
Bernie did what many of us who have been violently robbed or threatened for no reason would like to do. I have zero sympathy for those longtime criminal thugs who encountered Bernie Goetz and got what they deserved.
Last edited by texan2yankee; 12-24-2010 at 07:37 PM..
well we dont know whats the truth as far as his life and being pennyless but whether he is or he isnt its still a crappy way to have to live, working off the books ,hiding assets. believe me this debacle ruined his life.
the point is that anything you do in self-defense can have devastating civil consequences for the good guy.
i had posted about 2 months ago about how my wife and i were accosted in ally pond park while photographing it.
a guy walked directly in my face as i tried to go around him on the path. he starts saying something about the cameras and getting more beligerant in his voice.
marilyn starts screaming,he walks away and goes in her direction as shes screaming help (no one payed any attention ) i picked up a club and went towards him.
he now stops going towards her and comes back towards me and starts saying how im going to find out now what he has in his pack.
my mind is racing a thousand times a second as i try to decide whether to start hitting him with the club now or wait.
i waited and he starts now muttering about hes calling the cops because im threatning him.
well we still dont know what to make out of it but the point was he was either stoned or something wasnt quite right upstairs.
had i beaten him prematurely i could have had some civil suite against me as well,maybe even criminal .
everything in our law is an eye for an eye.
he verbally started to threaten me but hadnt grabbed the camera yet, but i introduced the first weapon ,a club.
now im the bad guy. in fact if he tried to steal our cameras that was larceny. but if i introduced a gun to stop him then now im threatning his life while he only is committing larceny.
im well familiar with new yorks self defense laws and they work nothing like most folks think.
do you know new york is a must retreat state? that means if you confront bad guys on your lawn or property with a gun and try to thwart an attack on you or your family you can be arrested? thats what happened to that guy in long island 2 months ago.
new york law says you must retreat into your house. you can wait for the bad guys to enter and then blow them away but the bottom line is they have to break in to get you. you cant bring the fight to them. nor can you display a weapon when the bad guys have not displayed one yet.
blow any of new yorks laws and you can find yourself in jail, spending tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands on lawyers or be found innocent criminally but loose everything you own or ever will own in a civil suite.
everything has to weighed against the consequence . we all like to say its better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6 but sometimes the misery that follows for the innocent guy makes death the better option lol.
i had a guy in our community driveway break into the cars every few weeks. after a while i stopped locking the door,didnt put a radio back in and that was that. at one point i was going to put a silent pager on the car . the plan was to surprise him and catch him. but then i thought about it and realized if it turned ugly and i introduced a weapon it would cost me 50k to just be found innocent so i decided it wasnt worth it and just let him go away on his own.
Victims can serve jailtime equally as suspects, NYC is a state within in a state and politicians here try to get whats best for them and the rich and everyone gets the shaft. I remember reading a case back in John Jay about a guy that was getting mugged and he fought back and killed his attacker and he served jailtime simply because his attacker did not flee. I think the case went to the US appeals court this happened here in nyc actually. Sorry to hear about your car breaking in, I guess at the end of the day its just to let the guy go, I do believe it would cost more if things got ugly. I really wanna call NY the unfair state.
Is he still living in Manhattan or did he decide to stay in NH?
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