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My wife just got a temp (three months) to permanent position through a staffing company in NYC making $21/per hour, so roughly 41k per year. I will be attending grad school and have access to $20,500 in stafford loans for cost of living. So, combined, a little more than $60,000. We are looking for a small studio apartment in Yorkville/Upper East Side for $1500 per month (meeting the 40x rule). We also have some savings, enough to put down extra security deposit or three-five months rent.
The problem is, we are from a place (southeast) where landlord references really dont matter at all, so we never got any. We have also been living for the past year in a second home of my in-laws to save up. The apartment building we lived at before that also told me that "we don't provide references, just a letter saying you completed your lease as agreed."
We have the ability to get a guarantor if needed, I just would like to avoid it if at all possible. Will the reference letter thing and/or the fact that my wife is working a temp to perm job lock us out without one?
Thanks for reading my long post. Any feedback would be much appreciated!
Last edited by J10203; 07-11-2012 at 09:43 PM..
Reason: ..
The loans aren't "income". The temp job is just that TEMPORARY! Your wife isn't even on the payroll!
Forget about LL references, you do not have any EMPLOYMENT REFERENCES!
Oh, and what happens if your wife doesn't get the job after 3 months? What if they drop here after 3 WEEKS?!
Btw, using $20K in student loans to pay for living expenses isn't smart!!! The money won't last a single year, and you'll be paying it off for 10 years PLUS! Not smart!
Not to mention that there is NO gurantee that you will find employment which will allow you to live AND pay off the loan. You are aware of the issues of the day, no? Kids graduating with HUGE loans and either no job, or one with insufficient pay to support the loans and living.
You don't need a Guarantor, you need a new plan!
Luck!
Btw, the Gurantor will need income sufficient to cover not only your rent, but additionally his own housing costs. Got it?
Walk up and down either First or Second Avenue and scout the blocks of 5 (and 6 story) walk-ups between the two avenues on all the streets in the between 86th and 96th. There are a million of them. The neighborhood is perfectly safe if a bit old looking.
Ring the supers' bells (they know everything) and talk to people entering or leaving.
If you see some plaques indicating the management company, take the number and call them with your needs and your rent limit.
With some luck you should be able to find a studio for $1500. Shop around and wear comfortable shoes.
Landlords in buildings like these don't usually need your DNA profile and rights to your first-born before accepting you as a tenant.
But if you find you DO need a co-signatory, then so be it.
PS...never count borrowed money as disposable income.
Regarding the debt. We have enough in savings to cover 6 months plus of living (rent+food+utilities+etc.) expenses. If my wife's temp-to-perm position goes permanent, which this company is really good about and very stable, her pay would go up by 50% immediately. It is very likely that she will go permanent if she does well, and she can handle this job easily. If that is the case, I would return my first installment of 10k immediately, as we would no longer need it. If she doesn't get the permanent position, we would live off of savings and the first installment of 10k, and if she doesn't find something within the next year... we leave. We have a total of 16k of student loan debt between the two of us and I received full tuition scholarship to go to a professional program which should increase our earning ability long term. So no, I don't count student loans as disposable income. I was referring to meeting the income threshold requirements.
I didn't feel like going into our life plan on here, I just wanted some advice about landlord requirements.
Regarding the debt. We have enough in savings to cover 6 months plus of living (rent+food+utilities+etc.) expenses. If my wife's temp-to-perm position goes permanent, which this company is really good about and very stable, her pay would go up by 50% immediately. It is very likely that she will go permanent if she does well, and she can handle this job easily. If that is the case, I would return my first installment of 10k immediately, as we would no longer need it. If she doesn't get the permanent position, we would live off of savings and the first installment of 10k, and if she doesn't find something within the next year... we leave. We have a total of 16k of student loan debt between the two of us and I received full tuition scholarship to go to a professional program which should increase our earning ability long term. So no, I don't count student loans as disposable income. I was referring to meeting the income threshold requirements.
I didn't feel like going into our life plan on here, I just wanted some advice about landlord requirements.
You're going to need a guarantor. Most landlords do not count student loan money as income. At least not here, anyway. They will want to see 3 months of pay stubs. They will want to see bank statements and last year's tax returns. As for landlord references, most don't bother with this as there is a landlord check they can run to make sure you've never been evicted or had legal issues with a previous landlord.
The guarantor you procure will need to be making 80x the rent. Just be aware of this. Also they will want the credit reports of both you, your wife and your guarantor.
Not trying to scare you, just being realistic, because this is what is very likely to be required.
My wife just got a temp (three months) to permanent position through a staffing company in NYC making $21/per hour, so roughly 41k per year. I will be attending grad school and have access to $20,500 in stafford loans for cost of living. So, combined, a little more than $60,000. We are looking for a small studio apartment in Yorkville/Upper East Side for $1500 per month (meeting the 40x rule). We also have some savings, enough to put down extra security deposit or three-five months rent.
The problem is, we are from a place (southeast) where landlord references really dont matter at all, so we never got any. We have also been living for the past year in a second home of my in-laws to save up. The apartment building we lived at before that also told me that "we don't provide references, just a letter saying you completed your lease as agreed."
We have the ability to get a guarantor if needed, I just would like to avoid it if at all possible. Will the reference letter thing and/or the fact that my wife is working a temp to perm job lock us out without one?
Thanks for reading my long post. Any feedback would be much appreciated!
Most likely you will need guarantor. In NYC, many LL takes account into more than just 40x income and based on the info you posted above. It'll be highly surprising if LL doesn't want guarantor or offer some creative solution that's tempting to the LL. For example a creative solution could be to use your 20k loan to pay 12 month worth of rent upfront, perhaps with request for discount to the LL. I'm not saying I recommend this and I'm just pointing out that creative solutions could be used to secure an apartment if you absolutely had to.
That said, there is a lot of 'what if' in your plans so do reconsider and build more flexbility into your plans.
I'd actually suggest you look for sub-lease for short-duration while your wife's temp-to-perm opportunity plays out. Once she actually becomes perm, then find an apartment that's more suitable. If for whatever unfortunate reasons, if she doesn't become perm and stay on-temp for extended period or need to find another job. Well...you didn't shoot yourself in the foot by locking into a 12 month lease that you can't afford to pay without your spouse's income.
Fyi - if you are wondering why the hell is it so hard in NYC. NYC's laws and courts are typically very tenant friendly so if the LL happens to end up with a bad tenant...it takes quite sometime in NYC for LL to be able to legally/physically force the tenant to move them out. And as expensive as NYC is, that hurts a lot financially to the LL so LL in NYC are very risk adverse.
Thanks guys! I really appreciate it. I figured that we would need a guarantor and my wife's parents are happy to do it and would easily meet the requirements. They have offered many times, knowing the extensive intrusion required. My wife and I are of the type that when our parents were happy to help when we were in college, for example, we both worked full time and paid for everything ourselves. We just don't like asking them for help. It would be stupid to not let them help us in this instance out of nothing but pride. I just hope a landlord will accept a guarantor out of the tri-state area.
That makes a lot of sense Babo, thank you for the explanation. Getting an apartment where we came from previously was as simple as showing a good credit score and some income, because they could boot you out easily if needed. They would typically just require some extra deposit.
Small time LLs typically won't take a guarantor, especially one from out of state. If you default, I am supposed to chase some random person 8 states away for payment? Not wise. Your best bet is subletting short term until you know whether your wife becomes permanent, or doesn't. Otherwise you will be spending an inordinate amount of time explaining your situation over and over again, and making huge comprises in your living situation as you will keep getting "no" for an answer.
Nobody counts student loans as income so your actual income is $40K, assuming anyone accepts this temporary job (nobody will because it can evaporate the next day).
So then going with the 40x rule, 40 x $1,500 = $60K income, which you do not earn. $40k/40x rule = $1,000 a month, which is (assuming someone would accept the $40K income) what you can afford in this city. GOOD LUCK.
There are ways to be creative. I looked at a one-month sublet for visiting family and one place I saw was a guy who had held onto his rent-controlled place over the years and was subletting it out at market. He wouldn't have cared if you rented from him for one month, 6 months, 12 months or whatever or whether you had a guarantor.
Just find places that aren't run by a management company or owned by a corporate entity- find the landlord in a walk-up that is in your price range. May take a lot of looking on craigslist or nybits.com and some skill avoiding all the annoying brokers but it can happen.
Just Remeber YOU fill out tax forms, any library has the blanks by the dozens and any stationary store has blank W-2 forms and paystubs awaiting a printer.
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