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But if you listen to the George Carlin routine, it's clear that "white Harlem" is something he and his friends came up with to sound "tough." It wasn't actually called that.
The "real name," according to him, was Morningside Heights--that's actually the point of the joke, because it sounds soft. He grew up in the 50s.
One issue is that Columbia's core campus, not counting any of its later real estate purchases, is big enough to physically dominate the neighborhood. It was built in the 1890s.
Another issue is that the neighborhood is on a big hill.
I don't know if lines have been blurred in some people's minds by the gentrification of Harlem proper in recent years. But I'm pretty sure that 10 years ago, if someone who lived at, say, Riverside and 118th claimed to live in "Harlem," any resident of actual Harlem would have laughed. East of the campus may have been more of a gray area at one point, I don't know.
There are many "neighborhoods" that were invented to promote gentrification, but Morningside Heights really isn't one.
But if you listen to the George Carlin routine, it's clear that "white Harlem" is something he and his friends came up with to sound "tough." It wasn't actually called that.
The "real name," according to him, was Morningside Heights--that's actually the point of the joke, because it sounds soft. He grew up in the 50s.
One issue is that Columbia's core campus, not counting any of its later real estate purchases, is big enough to physically dominate the neighborhood. It was built in the 1890s.
Another issue is that the neighborhood is on a big hill.
I don't know if lines have been blurred in some people's minds by the gentrification of Harlem proper in recent years. But I'm pretty sure that 10 years ago, if someone who lived at, say, Riverside and 118th claimed to live in "Harlem," any resident of actual Harlem would have laughed. East of the campus may have been more of a gray area at one point, I don't know.
There are many "neighborhoods" that were invented to promote gentrification, but Morningside Heights really isn't one.
Yeah...this is what I think...I think Harlem's southern boundary is from the Hudson: 125th to Morningside Drive, then down Morningside Drive to 110th Street, then across 110th Street to Madison Avenue, then down Madison Avenue to 96th Street, lastly, 96th Street to the FDR.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
Not discounting that it isn't part of Harlem but most of Harlem feels more like 116th and Lenox than 111th and Broadway. Just your humble mod's opinion. It really feels like an extension of the Upper West Side, even 20 years ago it did. If Google Map is showing the correct boundaries, it seems like 75% of the neighborhood is Columbia alone.
116th and Lenox feels like an extension of the UWS now to me. But it will be a while before anyone disassociates it with Harlem.
111th and Bway feels like that because its been like that for a generation now. You didn't see it when there were SRO's all around there with all types of prostitution and drugs. Most of those people died from aids in the early 80's. Columbia brought up a lot of the property. It wasn't pretty like it is now.
But if you listen to the George Carlin routine, it's clear that "white Harlem" is something he and his friends came up with to sound "tough." It wasn't actually called that.
The "real name," according to him, was Morningside Heights--that's actually the point of the joke, because it sounds soft. He grew up in the 50s.
One issue is that Columbia's core campus, not counting any of its later real estate purchases, is big enough to physically dominate the neighborhood. It was built in the 1890s.
Another issue is that the neighborhood is on a big hill.
I don't know if lines have been blurred in some people's minds by the gentrification of Harlem proper in recent years. But I'm pretty sure that 10 years ago, if someone who lived at, say, Riverside and 118th claimed to live in "Harlem," any resident of actual Harlem would have laughed. East of the campus may have been more of a gray area at one point, I don't know.
There are many "neighborhoods" that were invented to promote gentrification, but Morningside Heights really isn't one.
No George and his friends didn't invent that name. Like Sugar Hill was called that but it was really part of Washington Heights, now it's Hamilton Heights. Morningside Heights was referred to as White Harlem. The area was poor and Irish. Some of the post war buildings that are on Columbia's campus replaced tenements. Quite a few SRO hotels were in the area . Lots of drugs and prostitution. The late 70's and early 80's UWS was like that. So in this way it was always like the UWS. The UWS cleaned up and so did Morningside Heights around the same time.
Yeah...this is what I think...I think Harlem's southern boundary is from the Hudson: 125th to Morningside Drive, then down Morningside Drive to 110th Street, then across 110th Street to Madison Avenue, then down Madison Avenue to 96th Street, lastly, 96th Street to the FDR.
You are correct but you are not considering MH a part of Harlem in this assessment. You wouldn't skew the boundary around Mt Morris section and say that is Mt Morris not Harlem. You would most likely consider Mt Morris part of Central Harlem.
But if you listen to the George Carlin routine, it's clear that "white Harlem" is something he and his friends came up with to sound "tough." It wasn't actually called that.
The "real name," according to him, was Morningside Heights--that's actually the point of the joke, because it sounds soft. He grew up in the 50s.
One issue is that Columbia's core campus, not counting any of its later real estate purchases, is big enough to physically dominate the neighborhood. It was built in the 1890s.
Another issue is that the neighborhood is on a big hill.
I don't know if lines have been blurred in some people's minds by the gentrification of Harlem proper in recent years. But I'm pretty sure that 10 years ago, if someone who lived at, say, Riverside and 118th claimed to live in "Harlem," any resident of actual Harlem would have laughed. East of the campus may have been more of a gray area at one point, I don't know.
There are many "neighborhoods" that were invented to promote gentrification, but Morningside Heights really isn't one.
No Riverside Church is on 120th and Riverside Drive and the church considers itself part of the Harlem community and that it's in the Morningside Heights section of Harlem.
The name was always MH it was predominantly White. It's more diverse now because ColumbIa possibly is no longer predominantly White. But the disassociation with the rest of Harlem was deliberate at one time so that wealthy Columbia students would feel more comfortable and not go to another Ivy. This is probably not necessary now.
No Riverside Church is on 120th and Riverside Drive and the church considers itself part of the Harlem community and that it's in the Morningside Heights section of Harlem.
The name was always MH it was predominantly White. It's more diverse now because ColumbIa possibly is no longer predominantly White. But the disassociation with the rest of Harlem was deliberate at one time so that wealthy Columbia students would feel more comfortable and not go to another Ivy. This is probably not necessary now.
To me, 120th is the beginning of a buffer zone. I think my point stands though: if you did a poll of people in Harlem proper asking whether Columbia University is in Harlem, I strongly suspect most would say no.
(Though I now realize I forfeited some credibility in the last post by referring to the non-existent intersection of Riverside and 118th...pretend I said 116th.)
I lived in the area in the 1970's because I was going to Columbia. At that time, Morningside Heights was definitely considered a part of Harlem. NYC officially considered it Harlem,Columbia University considered it Harlem,residents considered it Harlem and cab drivers( of which I was also one in that era) considered it Harlem. I believe if you go back into Columbia archives in the first 1/2 of the 20th century you will even find references to Columbia's "Harlem Campus". If you asked any NY'er at the time where Grant's Tomb was they would say Harlem. If you asked them where Riverside Church was they would say Harlem. As the stigma of Harlem grew everyone has tried to shift the boundaries and it is obviously working since a lot of people on here seem to now consider it the UWS but really,traditionally it is Harlem.Sort of the same as when residents of Riverdale started denying they lived in the Bronx…at the same time and for the same reason.And there too there are real estate interests who are still trying to make people believe that Riverdale is now really the "upper upper West Side "even though it's in a different borough.
I also believe that if you go way back,the boundary of Harlem was even lower than 110th St . There is a reason why 106th st off of Riverside Drive is also named Duke Ellington Boulevard.It's where he lived and composed most of his songs with references to Harlem…... @ 333 Riverside Drive. When he lived and composed there,he very much considered himself to be in Harlem.
Last edited by bluedog2; 10-17-2014 at 11:08 AM..
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