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I think we can agree on the fact that with or without guns, it's more the mental state of the people that is relevant. If an insane individual does not have a gun, he will look for a knife, then some bottle, etc... and he will find a way to hurt, indeed.
Nevertheless, when you see that at some point of an argument, a man is capable of shooting another one in a theatre, is that really normal? If the victim was your son, would you simply say: "He should have shot first, no matter what?".
In my opinion, it's too much paranoia for very little benefit. It's best to have a world without gun for civilians and the police doing its job in a stricter way. Recently, you see policemen shooting kids who put a hand in their pocket, thinking they had a gun, while they had not. Well, if the law was that no civil has a gun, at least, such assumption would be considered unprofessional and normally impossible, and save the lives of those kids. Coupled with a strict training for the police in order to correctly evaluate weather they should shoot or not, it would reduce mistakes. Oh wait, is that too much investment for a better society?!?
I live in Manhattan and am quite happy to not have to fear a gunshot just because a guy felt like it. There will be other tragedies certainly but at least, no or less gun shots. If buying a gun was illegal, their prices would rise, and not every insane guy (or even organized crime) would be able to afford them that easily as it is the case right now.
Should that not be possible, then it should be like a driving license with continuous monitoring: forbidden below a certain age, and with points (any major mistake or crime fully cancels the permit), and a check up of the mental state and capabilities with written and shooting exams every 5 years or less.
I'm New York City born and raised. I'm very pro-second amendment and absolutely against the gun control laws and permit processes in place in New York City. The government at the federal , state and city level treat people as 'subjects' and not as it's 'citizens'. 'Subjects' of a government are considered inferior , stupid , and not to be trusted. The government knows best and feels the people are idiots that they must tell what to do and how to do it at all times. 'Citizens' are partners with the government and their fellow citizens.
Gun control is wrong not just in that it severely limits a persons ability to defend themselves , but also because it is a violation of trust between the government and the people. The constitution is awesome and when interpreted literally , as written , it lays the foundation for a great country and government. When politicians , and people who vote for them want to use the constitution as a 'guide' , or an aide , in matters of law , rather than strictly interpreting it , and adhering to it , frankly , those people and politicians make me sick.
I'm glad to read what many of you have written in speaking out against gun control. I sent out a lot of reps. It doesn't change much , but I for one am glad to see I'm not alone here with my views on this issue.
I am thrilled that NYC has tough gun laws, which is, in part, the reason it's the safest major city in the U.S.
And anyone who wants a gun, can get one. Guns are legal in NYC, just like in the rest of the country. But no, we aren't handing them out, like bubblegum, at your local WalMart. You actually need to pay a fee, undergo a background check, and follow the appropriate steps.
And before someone comes back with the idiotic "but some bad guys will still have guns", well, duh! There will still be terrorists in the world, doesn't mean we disband the CIA. There will still be crimes being committed, doesn't mean we dismantle the police. There will still be divorces, doesn't mean we ban marriage.
There is nothing wrong with actually having a rational system in place, like in NYC, where people who want a gun have to undergo serious review, and this has the side benefit of making illegal guns much more expensive (because of the mandatory maximums if caught with illegal firearm in NYC). A gun on the black market is almost free somewhere like Texas or Alabama; the same gun costs at least $500 in NYC, meaning that not every idiot on the streets is carrying one, unlike somewhere like Atlanta or Houston.
Well thought out post. I'm on the other side of you with this issue , and the sticking point is where you say "There is nothing wrong with actually having a rational system in place , like in NYC..." ... NYC does NOT have a rational system in place. Anyone who wants a permit has to pay outrageous yearly fees to get it , keep it , and maintain it. We are talking hundreds of dollars. Many people can't afford it. Or simply won't pay it. The powers that be are well aware of this and that's why it's set up that way. The city doesn't have a cash cow with it's gun licensing fees. It's not to generate revenue but to harrass people into not getting or keeping the licenses.
When you do apply , you are at the mercy of the investigators whims to approve you or not. New York State and City are not "shall issue".
One of the requirements to get a full carry permit is that you transport $5000 a day in cash or valuables on your person. Jewlers , pawn shop owners , etc. qualify. In New York City , the poor guy or girl walking down the block with an iphone or mp3 player is FAR more likely to get robbed. So that requirement is NOT rational.
You sound to me like a liberal. Every liberal loves anything and everything related to the concept of 'equality'. Racial equality , sexual equality , equality of opportunity , finanacial equality , etc etc.
So then , question - Why is it that the concept of citizens being on EQUAL footing with one another and the government in their ability to defend themselves drives leftists , most likely such as yourself , crazy?
Since you are most likely a leftist , It should **** you off to find out that here in New York City a rich white guy has a far better chance of getting a carry permit , then a poor minority who has almost ZERO chance and who is far more likely to be mugged , or a victim of a violent crime. THAT IS the problem with gun control and leftists who support gun control. They see the second amendment as a "white mans" amendment , which is wrong and absurd. It's there for everybody. I'm white. I have no problem and fully support any law abiding New Yorker or US citizen of ANY race owning and carrying a firearm for self defense.
Most crime victims get the police involved AFTER the fact. Even if you call the police while a crime against you or someone else is in progress , the call still has to go through the 911 system , get dispatched , and then wait for the police to respond and take action. It's better to protect yourself and NOT be a victim , rather than calling the police to respond WITH GUNS to crimes after the fact. I'm not anti police at all , but I don't see anything wrong with someone protecting and defending themselves.
Last edited by MotormanMike; 11-17-2014 at 02:32 AM..
MotormanMike:
You said it very well! It's amazing that they will give you a permit if you carry $5,000 or more on a daily basis. Are they trying to imply that your life is not worth that amount? You are correct the only people that can get gun permits in New York City are the rich and powerful and the politically well connected. Of which some have been instrumental in wanting to prevent the average law abiding citizen from having one. Such hypocrites!
italianuser:
Well you got me on Miami. Florida has relatively lenient gun laws, but what about the rest?
Quote:
Anyway, Arizona has a higher murder / crime rate than NYS
Not according to that chart Arizona is 3.53 firearms related murders per 100,000, New York 4.12
The issue here really should be guns in the hands of law abiding citizens not criminals. How many lawfully armed people are out there committing crimes with guns? If someone is willing to commit murder do you seriously believe that tacking on another gun charge will be a deterrent?
Quote:
P.S: Let me remind you that Los Angeles is among the safest USA's cities.
Really! Out here I know plenty of people from Southern California including a cousin who lives in LA. I can assure you that LA is anything but safe.
I'm New York City born and raised. I'm very pro-second amendment and absolutely against the gun control laws and permit processes in place in New York City. The government at the federal , state and city level treat people as 'subjects' and not as it's 'citizens'. 'Subjects' of a government are considered inferior , stupid , and not to be trusted. The government knows best and feels the people are idiots that they must tell what to do and how to do it at all times. 'Citizens' are partners with the government and their fellow citizens.
Gun control is wrong not just in that it severely limits a persons ability to defend themselves , but also because it is a violation of trust between the government and the people. The constitution is awesome and when interpreted literally , as written , it lays the foundation for a great country and government. When politicians , and people who vote for them want to use the constitution as a 'guide' , or an aide , in matters of law , rather than strictly interpreting it , and adhering to it , frankly , those people and politicians make me sick.
I'm glad to read what many of you have written in speaking out against gun control. I sent out a lot of reps. It doesn't change much , but I for one am glad to see I'm not alone here with my views on this issue.
Yea - you mean with the bit about the militia right?
How are you about hand-grenade control? Grenades were available arms at the time of writing the 2nd amendment. Do you think there should be no limits whatsoever on arms ownership by individuals? Do you think people in NYC should be able to own hand grenades? If not, why not?
It's not so much the police doing there job in a stricter way. They can only arrest and detain. It's our broken criminal justice system that has failed in allowing violent repeat offenders back out on the street. You know, the ones that "progressives" feel so sorry for. One of the posters claimed that it was okay with them for these miscreants to rob from the rich:
Quote:
Also, I say this is not about gun rights, but more like the poor native NYers have no other choice but to rob the wealthier transplants at their hipster coffee shops.
Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 11-17-2014 at 08:12 AM..
How are you about hand-grenade control? Grenades were available arms at the time of writing the 2nd amendment.
Yeah, what about nukes? Do you think people in NYC should be able to own nukes? Another stupid "Progressive" argument. Your ignorance is showing. Tell ya' what "bg7" why don't you try defending yourself with a grenade? You'll end up blowing yourself up and that will be the end of all your stupid arguments.
There are still plenty of guns in the city despite the law you know.
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