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Okay now you can go back to being SuperMario now that you are being more reasonable. Our take on South Bronx versus Central Bronx are really a matter of personal taste, and much of the world thinks its all the same sewer so its moot.
The drug problem clearly affects the ghettos more and is far more flagrant. That is a given and there is no argument there. The drug problem is just as prevalent in "better" neighborhoods..the difference is they are "functioning" drug addicts, and are not swallowed up by the drug culture. And for the record..I think A-Hole is doing MUCH worse than just smoking a blunt in the UWS..or anywhere else he is at.
And Gangs are everywhere..they are just not as ingrained in every neighborhood. Gangs are just a short train ride from anywhere...ever seen Warriors? NOw thats the Bronx that everyone knows...if you think it has not improved since then...you are utterly hopeless (not you SuperMario..just anyone in general).
I am not clear why you think the Bronx is declining? Please provide your reasons. Regarding the murder rate...people said the same thing when it went under 1,000. Do you really think a city of 8,000,000 is going to drop below 1,000? And yet it did...and was said again at 800, and 600, and now 500....I hope you are not saying the same thing at 400!!!
NYCTGO..it is unfortunate you have such a pessimistic view of the Bronx. Maybe you live in the housing projects? Maybe you have only been exposed to the negativity and poverty of the Bronx and not much else? Maybe you/a family member is a cop and only see/hear all that is wrong with the world? Maybe you have never left the poor areas of the Bronx? Maybe you are constantly surrounded by the wrong element? Maybe you are just negative?
I cannot say why you are pessimistic about the Bronx and believe it is getting worse. I don't doubt that you were robbed at gunpoint...as this happens ALL over the city. But I can also say I am a lifelong resident of Mott Haven..and as "white" as they are in this community...and I have never been robbed, attacked, assaulted, stabbed, shot, or anything similar. It should be noted that I do not hang out with the homies, don't hang in the projects, don't hang out at the bodega, do not patronize the local "clubs", and don't dress the part of the hoodrat either (my pants are on my waste, actually fit me, and do not own anything SeanJohn/Mecca/FUBU etc). So your experience is no less accurate as mine.
And I do see the Bronx as improving and contuing to improve..and I can give you all the reasons why. Why do you and SuperMario see it getting worse? Reasons please.
Okay now you can go back to being SuperMario now that you are being more reasonable. Our take on South Bronx versus Central Bronx are really a matter of personal taste, and much of the world thinks its all the same sewer so its moot.
Agreed...although we're biased towards our own neighborhood because we live there.
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The drug problem clearly affects the ghettos more and is far more flagrant. That is a given and there is no argument there. The drug problem is just as prevalent in "better" neighborhoods..the difference is they are "functioning" drug addicts, and are not swallowed up by the drug culture. And for the record..I think A-Hole is doing MUCH worse than just smoking a blunt in the UWS..or anywhere else he is at.
Basically there are more users and dealers in the ghetto. Tell me why would a drug dealer sell in the UWS? He wont have many customers. Those people are too busy making money and living in wealth to buy. Also If you're living in the UWS you have to have money. So you wont have any poor thug selling drugs to make ends meet. That's why it's more out in the open in Fordham. People are accustomed to it and it's part of the culture there. You also have PLENTY of customers. But I wont deny that even some rich people snort a pound or two a day. Just that it's rare.
Im just using UWS as an example. You can insert any well-off neighborhood if you'd like. Same with Fordham...insert any bad neighborhood.
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And Gangs are everywhere..they are just not as ingrained in every neighborhood. Gangs are just a short train ride from anywhere...ever seen Warriors? NOw thats the Bronx that everyone knows...if you think it has not improved since then...you are utterly hopeless (not you SuperMario..just anyone in general).
Yeah my point exactly...they aren't in every neighborhood. LOL at the warriors. You're taking a movie from the 1970's to prove your point. IMO today there are more gangs. While in the 70's it was more on turf and crew today you have many more gangs and are more organized. Also there are still many block/turf crews.
Bloods, Crips, Latin Kings, DDP, Trinitario, La Familia, ABK, Netas, LB ect
The above are big time gangs. So take the block crews from the warriors and add the above gangs. That's how it is today. So in terms of gangs, no it has not improved.
Hear of the innocent kid killed by the Crips at E. Tremont on new years eve? They killed him because they tought he was a blood.
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I am not clear why you think the Bronx is declining? Please provide your reasons. Regarding the murder rate...people said the same thing when it went under 1,000. Do you really think a city of 8,000,000 is going to drop below 1,000? And yet it did...and was said again at 800, and 600, and now 500....I hope you are not saying the same thing at 400!!!
A number of reasons really. One reason is gentrification. As Harlem and Washington heights gets gentrified ,the displaced residents are moving into the last "affordable" borough...The Bronx. These residents are usually poor....many are drug dealers who need new customers. Well tell that to a drug dealer in E. Tremont. As a result of more poor moving in, crime increases, drug dealers fight for turf, more gang members, as the new kids try to fit in....therefore increase in gang vioence. Also because of the lack of affordable housing, you will have many homeless people. Another reason is the police shortage. More police are leaving than coming in. Brings me to another point. Since the city is in debt, alot of the public services are going to be cut. So less police, less incarceartions, and graffiti will prosper. The city would not be able to keep up with all the graffiti and therefore even the trains may go back to being bombed out. Due to less police presence, you're going to have more loiterers outside....and that's usually not ggod. Lots of problems will start. Finally, if you notice since the 70's the urban plight continued upwards so that now the 200's are ghetto. The problem isn't just the south Bronx anymore. Look for the poverty and plight to continue moving upwards.....and also due to Soundview/Castle hill/Parckester/Wakefield look for i tto be a factor in the east Bronx aswell. The city can only get so safe.....it's due for a spike.
Okay now you can go back to being SuperMario now that you are being more reasonable. Our take on South Bronx versus Central Bronx are really a matter of personal taste, and much of the world thinks its all the same sewer so its moot.
The drug problem clearly affects the ghettos more and is far more flagrant. That is a given and there is no argument there. The drug problem is just as prevalent in "better" neighborhoods..the difference is they are "functioning" drug addicts, and are not swallowed up by the drug culture. And for the record..I think A-Hole is doing MUCH worse than just smoking a blunt in the UWS..or anywhere else he is at.
And Gangs are everywhere..they are just not as ingrained in every neighborhood. Gangs are just a short train ride from anywhere...ever seen Warriors? NOw thats the Bronx that everyone knows...if you think it has not improved since then...you are utterly hopeless (not you SuperMario..just anyone in general).
I am not clear why you think the Bronx is declining? Please provide your reasons. Regarding the murder rate...people said the same thing when it went under 1,000. Do you really think a city of 8,000,000 is going to drop below 1,000? And yet it did...and was said again at 800, and 600, and now 500....I hope you are not saying the same thing at 400!!!
the reason why some areas have less dealing is the people in those areas have money and dont have to go and sell drugs. in the south bx east ny and other ghettos people sell drugs to make money poor areas. in places with money people have so they dont need to sell drugs im sure plenty use drugs too but not as many as in the ghetto where a lot of people are addicted or pressured it even more becuse its in your face. those gangs you see on the warriors is just a movie too. gangs back then were like gangs now just under a different flag and like now those gangs stayed in there hoods not across the city like the movie. finally i agree with him the bronx is declineing becuase its just really poor people moving in a lot of people from harlem i know have moved to the bronx for cheaper rent in the new buildings and these people are not rich they get welfare some on section 8 so its not getting any richer just poorer and the same old.
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Originally Posted by Guywithacause
NYCTGO..it is unfortunate you have such a pessimistic view of the Bronx. Maybe you live in the housing projects? Maybe you have only been exposed to the negativity and poverty of the Bronx and not much else? Maybe you/a family member is a cop and only see/hear all that is wrong with the world? Maybe you have never left the poor areas of the Bronx? Maybe you are constantly surrounded by the wrong element? Maybe you are just negative?
I cannot say why you are pessimistic about the Bronx and believe it is getting worse. I don't doubt that you were robbed at gunpoint...as this happens ALL over the city. But I can also say I am a lifelong resident of Mott Haven..and as "white" as they are in this community...and I have never been robbed, attacked, assaulted, stabbed, shot, or anything similar. It should be noted that I do not hang out with the homies, don't hang in the projects, don't hang out at the bodega, do not patronize the local "clubs", and don't dress the part of the hoodrat either (my pants are on my waste, actually fit me, and do not own anything SeanJohn/Mecca/FUBU etc). So your experience is no less accurate as mine.
And I do see the Bronx as improving and contuing to improve..and I can give you all the reasons why. Why do you and SuperMario see it getting worse? Reasons please.
i dont live in the bronx i live in a 2 family townhouse in coney island but i used to live in harlem and hung out in the bx especially the south bronx becuase i had friends out there. now i hang out in the bronx once and a while not as much as before but enough and i am familiar with the neighborhoods. when i was young though i will admit i was up to mischief so im no dummy to the going ons in the area. now coney is a bad area itself i am not trying to act like its a nice place its a ghetto area and i dont like it but point is i have not seen much good from the bronx. just more poor people from other hoods moving in. i got robbed in your area mott haven walking out a townhouse soon as i stepped outside some guy pointed a gun in my face and asked me for my money. not worth getting shot over. sorry i wasnt hanging out in front a store or dressed like a hoodrat im in my late 30s. thats the kind of things that happen out there and even where i live frequently. in nicer areas you dont see people hanging out on all the corners looking at you all wrong and people that look like they are up to no good everywhere. its a big difference and the people that live in the poor areas versus the rich are a lot different. i dont want to sit here arguring over this crap i feel the way i do becuase of what i have seen and the people i know feel the same way even on here i see.
Seems like opinions on the Bronx in 2007 creep up on a whole bunch of threads! Being that the borough is considered the last part of affordability in New York City, heated discussions will still go on about its past, its present and its future!
SuperMario...you asked "Tell me why would a drug dealer sell in the UWS? He wont have many customers. Those people are too busy making money and living in wealth to buy. Also If you're living in the UWS you have to have money. So you wont have any poor thug selling drugs to make ends meet." I can tell you why..because THERE IS A BIG DEMAND FOR IT. And you know who they call for their drugs? The Bronx dealers who deliver right to their door...believe it. Nobody is EVER too busy or makes too much money to get coked up and stone? Those with money are notorios for getting high....its not just for the poor people. We are all human beings, with the same dysfunctions, addictions, and hangups.....money only provides you access to MORE drugs in many cases. Don't be fooled by money..it changes little.
And I read your reasons for why you believe that the Bronx will get worse...but again..none of these reasons are new. As I said..when the dotcum busted, the WTC fell, NYC lost tens of thousands of jobs...the stockmarket crashed, and a recession ensued all in a matter of a few months....every expert, analyst, and media outlet had reasons as to why the city would sink into the chaos of the 70s and people and companies would abanondon ship. But of course the exact opposite happened...so although you believe all of your reasons MUST logically lead to higher crime and deterioration in the Bronx...I believe, and as recent history has proven, the opposite will happen.
There has been a change in mentality in the city, as well as the Bronx. No not everyone has changed of course..but something is different. When the lights went out a couple years ago for 24 hours....the city did not sink into chaos, riots, fires did not burn down whole neighborhoods, and looting did not ensue..instead people took it in stride...worked together...spent time outside and with neighbors and friends on the stoops like it was 50 years ago. That is a prime example of how things have changed...the mentality is very different now than it was.
NYCTGO...I do not dismiss the fact that this happened to you...but in can simply be a case of at the wrong place at the wrong time. My uncle was robbed in broad daylight middle of the day, in front of the Chrysler Building 10 years ago. So lets keep things in perspective..
SuperMario...you asked "Tell me why would a drug dealer sell in the UWS? He wont have many customers. Those people are too busy making money and living in wealth to buy. Also If you're living in the UWS you have to have money. So you wont have any poor thug selling drugs to make ends meet." I can tell you why..because THERE IS A BIG DEMAND FOR IT. And you know who they call for their drugs? The Bronx dealers who deliver right to their door...believe it. Nobody is EVER too busy or makes too much money to get coked up and stone? Those with money are notorios for getting high....its not just for the poor people. We are all human beings, with the same dysfunctions, addictions, and hangups.....money only provides you access to MORE drugs in many cases. Don't be fooled by money..it changes little.
And I read your reasons for why you believe that the Bronx will get worse...but again..none of these reasons are new. As I said..when the dotcum busted, the WTC fell, NYC lost tens of thousands of jobs...the stockmarket crashed, and a recession ensued all in a matter of a few months....every expert, analyst, and media outlet had reasons as to why the city would sink into the chaos of the 70s and people and companies would abanondon ship. But of course the exact opposite happened...so although you believe all of your reasons MUST logically lead to higher crime and deterioration in the Bronx...I believe, and as recent history has proven, the opposite will happen.
There has been a change in mentality in the city, as well as the Bronx. No not everyone has changed of course..but something is different. When the lights went out a couple years ago for 24 hours....the city did not sink into chaos, riots, fires did not burn down whole neighborhoods, and looting did not ensue..instead people took it in stride...worked together...spent time outside and with neighbors and friends on the stoops like it was 50 years ago. That is a prime example of how things have changed...the mentality is very different now than it was.
NYCTGO...I do not dismiss the fact that this happened to you...but in can simply be a case of at the wrong place at the wrong time. My uncle was robbed in broad daylight middle of the day, in front of the Chrysler Building 10 years ago. So lets keep things in perspective..
you dont give good examples. the reason why drug dealing is not a big thing on the upper west side is people have money and dont have to turn to that. only exception is the projects they have out there and some last city owned buildings near them. thats about it. in the ghetto drug dealing is big becuase people turn to that for MONEY. it has nothing to do with who is using the drugs or who is not it has to do with selling the drugs but even usage is lower in those areas. your stock market crash example doesnt prove much to compare it to now what you dont understand is HOUSING is COOLING in the outer boroughs and that is a huge change it was not happening in 2001. The city makes a lot of money off housing revenues real estate but when that cools the city wont be making as much money and that will leave us in the red unless a lot of spending is cut even even then and the nation recession would only make that worse. your mentality change is not a good example the same things happen now that happened then shootings robberies jumpings and all that but the riots are an exception. nyc only had one major blackout riot in the 1970s in 2003 few stole in nyc or anywhere else becuase the city was ready and the 2003 blackout was very short compared to 1977. if the 2003 blackout would have went into the night up where my friends live in the bronx there would have been a lot of looting becuase people were talking about it and there was some looting before the stores locked up around where my friend lived and around where i live but the lights went on around where they live before night came. in 1977 that blackout lasted a whole weekend if i remember correctly i was very young and it started at night too. when i was robbed in your area yes it was the wrong place at wrong time all robberies are but that happens a lot in that area a lot more then around the chrysler building. you cant compare those two areas big difference. im done wit this conversation though its really off topic and you are going to keep saying what you want.
NYCTOGO...my assertions merely put YOUR argument to the test....you claim its all different because housing has cooled therefore things will go to he$$...but the same theory applied to the stock market in 2001...which is also the bread and butter of NYC and makes the world go round in fact....the stock market collapse of 2001 did not send the city into a downward spiral....we in fact came out stronger as a result of it. Your theory on housing causing the deterioration of the city is just more rhetoric and blabbing with NOTHING TO BACK IT UP BUT YOUR FEELINGS. The stock market crash didn't do it, the tens of thousands of job losses, the destruction of the WTC and abandonment of entire Manhattan district for months, AND the recession that followed all within months of eachother did not bring the city to its knees...yet you assert its all different because housing has cooled? You are kidding right? Thanks for the pointless blabber.
Regarding the blackout..it WAS 24 hours...therefore the blackout occured all night as well....and no looting, no fires, no chaos, no murder rampages, not even a breakout of graffitti! The mentality has changed..and that blackout clearly demonstrates the change.
NYCTOGO...my assertions merely put YOUR argument to the test....you claim its all different because housing has cooled therefore things will go to he$$...but the same theory applied to the stock market in 2001...which is also the bread and butter of NYC and makes the world go round in fact....the stock market collapse of 2001 did not send the city into a downward spiral....we in fact came out stronger as a result of it. Your theory on housing causing the deterioration of the city is just more rhetoric and blabbing with NOTHING TO BACK IT UP BUT YOUR FEELINGS. The stock market crash didn't do it, the tens of thousands of job losses, the destruction of the WTC and abandonment of entire Manhattan district for months, AND the recession that followed all within months of eachother did not bring the city to its knees...yet you assert its all different because housing has cooled? You are kidding right? Thanks for the pointless blabber.
Regarding the blackout..it WAS 24 hours...therefore the blackout occured all night as well....and no looting, no fires, no chaos, no murder rampages, not even a breakout of graffitti! The mentality has changed..and that blackout clearly demonstrates the change.
few corrections although I agree with you in some of these statements.
1. NYC is not the heart and soul of the international stock market, that would be London.
2. The stock market didnt crash, that was the sound of a bubble bursting (tech and telecomm)
3. Don't get it messed up, the federal govt. did step in to soften much of the blew after 9/11. NYC is America's most important city financially and if that place falls the entire country is finished, and thats real talk.
4. NYC did suffer some setbacks and isn't stronger than ever. If I could find this one press conference from Bloomberg it would sum everything up nicely (but I can't so oh well).
5. NYC didn't crumble as a result of the tech bubble in '01 and it wont fall as a result of this housing bubble. This entire country might see some extremely bad times financially as a result of housing, credit among other things. However I believe NYC and many other BIG cities like Chicago and DC will do far better than other areas. So I agree with you on this one.
To be fair Guy......during the 2003 blackout there was a shootout in my block. Since it was dark they knew they can get away with things easier. They took advantage as a result. Same would of happened in other areas had it gone for longer.
Now you tell me why you think the Bronx is improving. I told you my beliefs, please share yours.
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