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I agree: personal accountability doesn't exist in this country. If someone or something is to blame, it's always the "system" that's the true culprit
That's already been covered. For one thing, the MTA has millions in liability insurance. Lawyers know that. And someone else already listed the reasons that the lawyers will use to hold the MTA accountable.
I do agree with you in principle. It's NOT the MTA's fault at all. It was human error and bad decisions on the part of Ellen Brody. However, you've got people who are burned and have severed legs, and their lawyers are going to sue the entity that has the most resources. That's how the world works.
In the top photo, you can see the gate (at the bottom of the picture) that hit the back of her SUV, and then you can see where the train was in relation to where her car had been when she was stopped.
Based on these photos, I'm guessing that after the gate hit the back of her car, and she got back in it, she may have instinctively looked to the left, which most of us do out of habit, thinking that the train was coming from that direction. In those seconds when she did not see a train and began to pull forward, thinking she had time to make it across, that is when the train hit from the right.
The other alternative is that she meant to put it in reverse, but put it in drive instead.
But the system is 100 years old and we cannot possibly make it safe.
No, tunnels or overpasses are impossible to design.
Valhalla didn't exist 100 years ago.
We only BOUGHT the system so we are not responsible for accidents or safety measures.
It USED to be a cemetery.
For someone who is going to criticize me for not re-searching who owned the railroad 100 years ago, and the history of Valhalla, NY, you seem to have been asleep at the CURRENT information wheel.
Time and time again the NTSB said the speed limit was 60 and the train was going 58 before it hit the brakes. I assumed the NTSD would know.
The speed at the time of impact a half minute after brakes were applied is completely irrelevant other than it was enough to kill the driver and train passengers and destroy its a few hundred feet of its own third rail.
A reasonable standard for safety is that if a train engineer sees an obstacle in from of him he should be able to stop in time (ladies and gentlemen of the jury.) I find it hard to believe that 30 seconds is not nearly enough time to even come close to stopping one of these trains in an emergency.
Just wait and see what the MTA will have to settle on its dead passengers. The proof of the pudding will be in the PAYING. All any of the families need is a reasonably competent lawyer.
One, Metro North is only responsible for the ROW, the signals, lights and so forth leading up to the tracks are the responsibility of NYS.
Two, the ROW, train, gates, signals were and are all operating safely and as designed. Again the Brody woman was not where she should have been. No SUV on tracks no crash.
Three, what do you mean "used" to be a cemetery. Last time I was up there it still was and is an active burial ground.
Four, legal doctrine holds you cannot make something 100% safe, the world only creates smarter idiots in response. What you can do is design systems that are near fool proof as you can get, that is until again some idiot tests the laws of human nature.
Three, NYS was supposed to install a second set of signals further down Commerce Street to give drivers more warning. It never did so and the money was eventually returned to a general revenue account.
Four, RR's would love nothing better than to block off areas further from tracks, use locomotive horns, signals and so forth more often but local residents do not like those ideas at all, and fight tooth and nail against. Even where communities developed *after* and around railroad tracks local residents complain about the noise from train whistles, horns and so forth. The result is usually a court battle or the lean on local elected officials to get the federal agency that controls RRs involved.
Newsflash! Some three hundred or so persons die by being struck by RR trains per year IIRC. In nearly 100% of these cases these accidents involve persons being on or near RR tracks when they shouldn't.
Unfortunately the US legal system favours these fools because courts/juries award damages when clearly the deceased and or person/persons who caused the incident is totally to blame. In much of Europe OTOH culpability of the victim dead or alive is factored into liability. If you were where you shouldn't be doing something that you shouldn't don't count on getting tens of millions in damages.
But the system is 100 years old and we cannot possibly make it safe.
No, tunnels or overpasses are impossible to design.
Valhalla didn't exist 100 years ago.
We only BOUGHT the system so we are not responsible for accidents or safety measures.
It USED to be a cemetery.
For someone who is going to criticize me for not re-searching who owned the railroad 100 years ago, and the history of Valhalla, NY, you seem to have been asleep at the CURRENT information wheel.
Time and time again the NTSB said the speed limit was 60 and the train was going 58 before it hit the brakes. I assumed the NTSD would know.
The speed at the time of impact a half minute after brakes were applied is completely irrelevant other than it was enough to kill the driver and train passengers and destroy its a few hundred feet of its own third rail.
A reasonable standard for safety is that if a train engineer sees an obstacle in from of him he should be able to stop in time (ladies and gentlemen of the jury.) I find it hard to believe that 30 seconds is not nearly enough time to even come close to stopping one of these trains in an emergency.
Just wait and see what the MTA will have to settle on its dead passengers. The proof of the pudding will be in the PAYING. All any of the families need is a reasonably competent lawyer.
Speed limit is *60* and the train was operating two MPH below (58) what exactly is your problem? Do you get speeding tickets for driving on a highway doing 53mph in a 55mph zone? Again the train and engineer were going about their business as they should. You cannot operate a train based upon "what if's". You need to do some serious research on train operation.
Engineers set speed of their locomotives based upon signal information and what the limit is for that section of track. Other factors are if they have been advised of work crews or some other reason to proceed with caution. You see this when subway trains slow down and sound their horns when approaching and passing through areas where track work is taking place.
This particular stretch of track comes around a bend/curve and meets Commerce Street at a forty-five degree angle. When the engineer noticed something being reflected in his lights at once he sounded his horns. When the woman drove onto the tracks/it became clear it was a vehicle the train was put into emergency and series of four second horn blasts were issued. Engineer
Physics obviously was not your strong suit at school or college so let me break it down like a fraction for you; due to its mass you cannot stop a locomotive/RR train on a dime. Even attempting to do so would likely cause jack-knifing.
Am fed up to the back teeth with precious little snowflakes for whom everything is always someone else's fault. Like I said if am driving down Second Avenue doing 20mph and you walk out into the middle of the street (against the light and not in a cross walk), and get hit *NOTHING* will happen to me legally. Long as one is operating the vehicle in a safe manner and breaking no know laws there is an end to it; however *you* may be either dead or injured. Such things just prove Mr. Darwin's theories correct. I bet Mrs. Brody's children will not be driving through RR crossings against a signal nor will any succeeding generations for a long time.
Did any of the people that died because of the electrified third rail pierced the cabin? The MTA might get sued because of that.
And did the fire ignite because of the immense current capability of the third rail. If so, why was there not an instantaneous (speed of light) shutoff of the power.
Did the OTHER rails get torn up. If not, then why did the third rail get ripped apart? by the act of dragging the car along it?
Am fed up to the back teeth with precious little snowflakes for whom everything is always someone else's fault.
Unfortunately, due to lawyers twisting their greedy little fingers (and cashew-sized man parts apparently) into every little facet of our lives, this is the way of the country now.
And did the fire ignite because of the immense current capability of the third rail. If so, why was there not an instantaneous (speed of light) shutoff of the power.
Did the OTHER rails get torn up. If not, then why did the third rail get ripped apart? by the act of dragging the car along it?
Quote:
Well, this particular engineer didn't have thirty seconds notice,
But he DID according to the NTBS report. The brakes were applied for 30 seconds. And that was apparently not enough time for the train to slow down very much.
I agree, the third rail is a poor design choice, the lack of bells is a poor design choice and those bad choices makes the MTA potentially liable even if the train was driven by the Angel Gabriel with Satan behind the wheel of the Mercedes.
And did the fire ignite because of the immense current capability of the third rail. If so, why was there not an instantaneous (speed of light) shutoff of the power.
Did the OTHER rails get torn up. If not, then why did the third rail get ripped apart? by the act of dragging the car along it?
safety circuits are instantaneous as far as short circuit protection not ground fault which is what you had. it is the same reason circuit breakers trip on short circuit but seperate gfci protection is required at distinct spots in you house in order to work.
the spots have to be planned and protected in advance and on something as long as a train track that is impossible because of ground loops . that is why people get electrocuted on a third rail.
Last edited by mathjak107; 02-08-2015 at 08:03 AM..
And did the fire ignite because of the immense current capability of the third rail. If so, why was there not an instantaneous (speed of light) shutoff of the power.
Did the OTHER rails get torn up. If not, then why did the third rail get ripped apart? by the act of dragging the car along it?
i do not find metro north was liable in any way ,this was all human error on behalf of the driver of the suv
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