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Ive been reading a couple posts on here before joining, and noticed alot of whining and finger pointing at yuppies, racial groups, different ethnicities, politicians, etc... thank YOURSELVES for destroying NYC. You decided to leave because you were greedy, wanted a big yard with a swimming pool in it, took for granted the culture and greatness of your city, sold your houses, and vacated your apartment buildings. thanks for abandoning your old homes, letting the character of your old neighborhoods die (especially the italian ones), and destroying new york. you people come on here and whine about the state u live in now, how the food sucks, how the people have no culture, and how it is boring. Congrats, u have achieved the american dream
ciao
[quote=NJ italian;3089183]Ive been reading a couple posts on here before joining, and noticed alot of whining and finger pointing at yuppies, racial groups, different ethnicities, politicians, etc... thank YOURSELVES for destroying NYC. You decided to leave because you were greedy, wanted a big yard with a swimming pool in it, took for granted the culture and greatness of your city, sold your houses, and vacated your apartment buildings. thanks for abandoning your old homes, letting the character of your old neighborhoods die (especially the italian ones), and destroying new york. you people come on here and whine about the state u live in now, how the food sucks, how the people have no culture, and how it is boring. Congrats, u have achieved the american dream
ciao[/quote
Geez, the people on this board are so negative. How about being thankful to live in one of the greatest countries in the world? Even the poorest people in this country live better than 70% of the rest of the world. Living in America or being able to try and live the "American Dream" is a blessing. I am shocked at how much people in NYC ***** and complain.
Ive been reading a couple posts on here before joining, and noticed alot of whining and finger pointing at yuppies, racial groups, different ethnicities, politicians, etc... thank YOURSELVES for destroying NYC. You decided to leave because you were greedy, wanted a big yard with a swimming pool in it, took for granted the culture and greatness of your city, sold your houses, and vacated your apartment buildings. thanks for abandoning your old homes, letting the character of your old neighborhoods die (especially the italian ones), and destroying new york. you people come on here and whine about the state u live in now, how the food sucks, how the people have no culture, and how it is boring. Congrats, u have achieved the american dream
ciao
I agree with you, but I also disagree in a sense because there are many people who never sold out. Also it is kinda tough for those who stick it out when everybody else is gone and are the "last" ones to leave because the "community" that kept you there now lives in LI, NJ or FL and youre the only one left. Its pretty disheartening to see people sell out to new ethnic groups or non-ethnic wealth based groups you cannot avoid and watch your community disappear before your eyes. All of a sudden your an outsider in a place you lived for 10, 20, 30, maybe even 60 years. Your community becomes the lack of community and all of a sudden your house/apt is an overpriced box.
Should the community necessarily be "yours", NO. However, when you create an ongoing uniqueness that is justified by its nationwide renown and its position as a cultural destination (ex: Bensonhurst, and yes I know theres some bad that goes with the good), not having a place Italian like this is destroying an irreplaceable community. Its like Harlem with no remnants of the Harlem renaissance...IT JUST DOESNT FEEL RIGHT.
As for the majority who begin the migration to go live way into places like South Shore Staten Island and become slob Americans without values spending in debt to drive Escalades, these people do dumb things like argue with neighbors over street parking spots that nobody owns like they are hillbillies with nothing else to do. Yet they rep their Brooklyn block like they stayed and retained their values and ethics. Ha yeah right. As an Italian American, I have absolutely no respect for these people.
Ive been reading a couple posts on here before joining, and noticed alot of whining and finger pointing at yuppies, racial groups, different ethnicities, politicians, etc... thank YOURSELVES for destroying NYC. You decided to leave because you were greedy, wanted a big yard with a swimming pool in it, took for granted the culture and greatness of your city, sold your houses, and vacated your apartment buildings. thanks for abandoning your old homes, letting the character of your old neighborhoods die (especially the italian ones), and destroying new york. you people come on here and whine about the state u live in now, how the food sucks, how the people have no culture, and how it is boring. Congrats, u have achieved the american dream
ciao[/quote
Geez, the people on this board are so negative. How about being thankful to live in one of the greatest countries in the world? Even the poorest people in this country live better than 70% of the rest of the world. Living in America or being able to try and live the "American Dream" is a blessing. I am shocked at how much people in NYC ***** and complain.
I think you need to do a bit more research on that one
I understand your post NJItalian...but things change, life changes, and people will always complain about something..that's human nature. So if they stayed they would complain about the new people coming in and ruining "their" neighborhood (see DITC's post)...and if they go they complain about their new location's lack of culture, good food, and boredom, among others. That's just how it is.
As for DITC's post, there were many MANY people who complained, fought, and harassed all the new colored people that came in the 50s that "ruined their" neighborhood, so the hippies or other new residents coming in are nothing new, out of the ordinary, or special. That is the nature of NYC, THINGS CHANGE..and it is those that work hard to PREVENT the ebb and flow of communities and people are those that promote (directly and indirectly) segregation, exclusion, and the ghetto culture that we see today. Furthemore, it is those that try to prevent "new" people from entering their neighborhoods that are promoting the idea that somehow the building, block, or neighborhood is inherently "yours" and therefore they must do, say, and live by your rules, or somehow must justify their existence in "your" community.
Unless you OWN the building, YOU have no business saying who can come, go, live there, walk by, open a business, or otherwise live in "your" community. How about redirecting your misplaced anger towards making your community better by INCLUDING others and welcoming those that are different, instead of subscribing to the same old attitude of "them vs us" and "mine versus yours," as we are living with the repercussions of those monumentally damaging attitudes every day.
I never said these communities had to be 80-100% Italian (or whatever other ethnicity) and nothing else. Bensonhurst was predominantly Italian but many other ethnic communities have always included other groups, often mixed Irish/Italian/Jewish. I would have no problem moving to Flatbush tomorrow, but you better believe I would respect the local Jamaican culture and support the local businesses, and not try to move hundreds of outsiders in as an effort to turn it into something else. Outsiders can move in but very often they do not have interest in the local culture, and they like to bring their own Manhattan type establishments (or whatever else) and destroy the character of the neighborhood.
Guy, you really must watch too much Bronx Tale as motivation to overintegrate the city. Is your cause turning the streets of the South Bronx into a politically correct evenly spread pattern of White, Black, Asian, Indian, Hispanic, White, Black, Asian, Indian, Hispanic. Should we put Chinese markets and restaurants on Arthur Ave and vice versa to fulfill integration quotas too while we are at it? Cmon pal wheres your sense of culture?
The reason we need to preserve NY ethnic communities is every other city in the Northeast is very much black and white. New York is truly an ethnic melting pot. The diversity and uniqueness of all these communities adds to the glamor of Manhattan, and this is what makes NY so much "better" than other cities in the eyes of many. The edge of NY stimulates demand, and demand gives you an edge in property values, Guy. If the city becomes too integrated, there will be no difference between Bed Stuy, Borough Park, Morris Park, and Woodlawn, and NY will not be a unique city as much as you want to rep the lights of Times Square and the wonderful architecture. That would be a sad day.
DITC....I do not believe your understand how the migration patterns have worked in this city. Since when did people quietly move into an area in smaller numbers with the intention of respecting the local culture, putting theirs to the wayside, supporting their local businesses, and otherwise giving up everything about yourself just to conform? People historically have SWARMED neighborhoods in large numbers, and it is precicely because they did not just inetgrate into the prior inhabitants culture that we have communities like Arthur Ave. What if the Italians subscribed to your flawed logic and just moved to Arthur ave, patronized the local businesses and "respected the culture", and not tried to move in bunches of people to ultimately make the area an italian enclave? It would never have existed! That is the history of the community changes of this city..swarms of people move in, dominate an area, while the prior residents typically move out or decrease to a marginal number. So now that the Italians have "established" their communities by decimating former communities, the Hippies are evil for doing the same thing? The hippies come in large numbers, and instead of opening Mom and Pop bakeries, they are trailed by starbucks, AuBon Pain, and H&M...and this is a problem because now its "YOUR" community that is being affected so its not fair, or right, or their reasons are not good enough?
Furthemore, what I propose has nothing to do with "overintergating," it is a shame that the word even exists, or that it is somehow wrong...this is America after all! If you don't want to be around Indians, Jews, Jamaicans, Irish, Greeks, Hippies, Germans, Africans, why live in NYC? It's only okay when they stick to their own neighborhoods? Please clarify yourself.
My sense of culture is strong enough to enjoy a chinese restaurant on Arthur Ave, a Jamacain patty shop, and a Mexican restuarant....it's "supposed to be" only Italian restuarants? You are confusing a "sense of culture" with exclusion, and somehow "owning a neighborhood" and there isn't room for anyone else...well there might be so long as they don't rock the boat and abide by your rules right?
And for the record, I long for the day, as do most other NYers, when there is no difference between Woodlawn, Morris Park, Mott Haven, Bed-Stuy...unless you enjoy the continued extreme segregation, extreme poverty, and high crime, and extreme divisions that continue to plague this city. It would be a GREAT day when we can go to Bed-Stuy and see families, Hippies, blacks, asians, and City workers living together....what do we see now?
DITC....I do not believe your understand how the migration patterns have worked in this city. Since when did people quietly move into an area in smaller numbers with the intention of respecting the local culture, putting theirs to the wayside, supporting their local businesses, and otherwise giving up everything about yourself just to conform? People historically have SWARMED neighborhoods in large numbers, and it is precicely because they did not just inetgrate into the prior inhabitants culture that we have communities like Arthur Ave. What if the Italians subscribed to your flawed logic and just moved to Arthur ave, patronized the local businesses and "respected the culture", and not tried to move in bunches of people to ultimately make the area an italian enclave? It would never have existed! That is the history of the community changes of this city..swarms of people move in, dominate an area, while the prior residents typically move out or decrease to a marginal number. So now that the Italians have "established" their communities by decimating former communities, the Hippies are evil for doing the same thing? The hippies come in large numbers, and instead of opening Mom and Pop bakeries, they are trailed by starbucks, AuBon Pain, and H&M...and this is a problem because now its "YOUR" community that is being affected so its not fair, or right, or their reasons are not good enough?
Furthemore, what I propose has nothing to do with "overintergating," it is a shame that the word even exists, or that it is somehow wrong...this is America after all! If you don't want to be around Indians, Jews, Jamaicans, Irish, Greeks, Hippies, Germans, Africans, why live in NYC? It's only okay when they stick to their own neighborhoods? Please clarify yourself.
My sense of culture is strong enough to enjoy a chinese restaurant on Arthur Ave, a Jamacain patty shop, and a Mexican restuarant....it's "supposed to be" only Italian restuarants? You are confusing a "sense of culture" with exclusion, and somehow "owning a neighborhood" and there isn't room for anyone else...well there might be so long as they don't rock the boat and abide by your rules right?
And for the record, I long for the day, as do most other NYers, when there is no difference between Woodlawn, Morris Park, Mott Haven, Bed-Stuy...unless you enjoy the continued extreme segregation, extreme poverty, and high crime, and extreme divisions that continue to plague this city. It would be a GREAT day when we can go to Bed-Stuy and see families, Hippies, blacks, asians, and City workers living together....what do we see now?
I understand how the migration patterns work. Arthur Ave is currently becoming more Albanian, as much as we would like to see it stay an Italian market (since people regularly drive from Westchester, Connecticut, and well into New Jersey to come here) I respect the Albanian mom and pop entrance as they are doing a similar thing what we did years ago. What I do not respect is big box America. They are greedy pigs that are everywhere else in this country and feel the need to enter the "untapped" outer borough market. Big box America seems to follow gentrification.
I never said these places should be completely segregated. In fact I wouldnt want them completely segregated, I like a mix, but an excessive mix would be silly. Arthur Ave has practically no Italian residents today, and that is fine. But the great thing is they preserved it as a Little Italy for the Bronx as a destination, and hopefully it can stay that way for some time. Im mostly saying the places should be preserved at some level...first and foremost commercially maintained to protect the mom and pop shop owner from bland American chains, and then try to somehow encourage long time residents to stay because they help add character, and they should not feel forced out. Dont you find it nice when you can walk down a street and hear Portugese, Italian, Spanish, Albanian, Chinese, Indian being spoken by second and third generation Americans? It takes a community (even if the remaining population is minimal) and not just one family to do this.
Do you have a problem with people holding on to their roots as a second identity to being American? I find this is something that makes us all unique, remembering the ancestors that sacrificed themselves to make better lives for us by maintaining the cultural . When we integrate the city and make Woodlawn and Bed Stuy carbon copies of each other, why dont we just get rid of the Santa Rosalia Festival and the Puerto Rican Day Parade. Why dont we just strip every ounce of character out of New York, so New York will be more similar to Houston and Dallas?
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US is up there, but not at the top.
