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they sold that house just a couple weeks back for almost half the price.
03/13/18 Sold $570,000
That makes more sense. What's been happening in various parts of the Bronx is landlords are just seeing what they can get. I've seen studios listed at almost $2,000 (granted mainly in Riverdale but still - either decent square footage but not renovated, or small but renovated).
I've been researching the market and talking to realtors. There are a lot of things I just don't understand about whats going on in the Bronx right now.
First, we can talk about the rents.
Aside from the very small luxury market in the South Bronx, it seems that the rents are pretty much the same all across the borough. Whether you're one stop from Manhattan or all the way at the end of the subway line in Bedford Park. Even in rougher areas like Crotona Park East and Hunts Point.
The rents are extremely high for the income levels of the majority of people who live there. At these levels the only people who can afford the rents are people on programs or transplants from the other boroughs. Despite all of the planned developments if you walk on the streets its still the same Bronx. There are very few neighborhood amenities or good restaurants. Things are changing but its a very slow process. Do landlords really think so many people will be continuing to rush in and pay these rents? Historically, the only real value the borough had was to allow you to live in NYC cheaply. That's not so true anymore and I'm not sure I can see where the value is.
The margins between Upper Manhattan and Bronx rents are very thin. You can get a 1 bedroom for 1800 in Washington Heights and now 1 bedrooms in the BX are approaching 1600. Unless you really can't afford that extra $200 per month, I don't know why you'd choose to move to the BX and pay that rent.
The next problem are the prices for buildings, especially closer to the South Bronx.
People are asking 700+ for 2 family homes and 800-900 sometimes even 1m for 3 family. When you crunch the numbers it just doesn't make sense at all. An investor buying one of these properties at those prices would be losing money every month even at full occupancy. They would be buying speculating only that the value of the house appreciates significantly more to make all of the carrying costs and negative cash flow worth it. I would expect some buyers at these prices that are financing will run into problems when the appraisals come out too low.
Property values nearly doubled in the last 4 years and rents are up 30-40%. It looks to me like the classic problem of investors chasing a surge in past returns expecting they will continue into the future. This scenario happens over and over again all over history in different markets. The dotcom boom, the recent bitcoin mania, the housing crisis in 2008, etc.. It always ends badly. The small real estate firms that dominate the market are only exacerbating the situation by pumping everyone up talking about how the prices are soon going to be at parity with Queens.
The rest of the NYC market has slowed down. Landlords are offering concessions. People have walked out of deals because of the Trump taxes curtailing the mortgage interest deduction. If the rents and values in the other boroughs were to actually go down, the Bronx premium would almost evaporate.
Given all this, it seems a crash in the Bronx real estate market is imminent. But who really knows. This stuff is hard to predict.
On the other hand, people believe its the last frontier. That if you don't get in now you'll never be able to later.
What do you think?
They are, whether it be renting or buying a condo But as many say in order to get the gentrification train rolling you have to have the people.
FH and I would have been paying $2K for a 1 bedroom in East Harlem now we are paying $1750 for a 2 bedroom in the Bronx. The trade-off definitely is the amenities. Had we moved to Kingsbride (and paid $2200 + for a 2 bedroom) the amenities would have been there. But by Yankee Stadium they just aren't.
So for someone coming from Brooklyn/Manhattan Bronx prices are good. Are they a steal like they were in 2013, 2009, 2000? No...But if you are lucky the apartment isn't chopped up, and it will be renovated.
We have a washer/dryer in our apartment. That was the main reason for us taking it, besides the space and price.
Landlords ARE paying attention to credit and income. They checked both. They wanted to know that we worked and could pay this rent.
What really makes me laugh...the "legal rent" on the apartment is $2400 and change I believe (don't quote me). But it is a price that does not warrant the area nor the building up kept itself. That legal rent is for the apartment alone.
You are making the same mistake everyone makes with your outdated Manhattan centric ideas . Most NYC residents don't work in Manhattan!!! Most people who live in the Bronx don't work in Manhattan or give a **** how often they go there. The NYC real estate market is a lot more complicated than just commuting distance from Manhattan.
Each borough has it's own real estate market with different forces driving them. And although you might not understand all the factors that go into them there is logic and reason .
This! The singular focuse on the commute to Manhattan determining the appeal of a neighborhood is outdated. Some years I travel out of state and overseas more often than my visits to Manhattan. Most people I know who are buying real estate don't work in Manhattan.
They are, whether it be renting or buying a condo But as many say in order to get the gentrification train rolling you have to have the people.
FH and I would have been paying $2K for a 1 bedroom in East Harlem now we are paying $1750 for a 2 bedroom in the Bronx. The trade-off definitely is the amenities. Had we moved to Kingsbride (and paid $2200 + for a 2 bedroom) the amenities would have been there. But by Yankee Stadium they just aren't.
So for someone coming from Brooklyn/Manhattan Bronx prices are good. Are they a steal like they were in 2013, 2009, 2000? No...But if you are lucky the apartment isn't chopped up, and it will be renovated.
We have a washer/dryer in our apartment. That was the main reason for us taking it, besides the space and price.
Landlords ARE paying attention to credit and income. They checked both. They wanted to know that we worked and could pay this rent.
What really makes me laugh...the "legal rent" on the apartment is $2400 and change I believe (don't quote me). But it is a price that does not warrant the area nor the building up kept itself. That legal rent is for the apartment alone.
Wait a minute, so if the "legal rent" is ~$2400, how are you paying $1750? That's almost a difference of $700!!!
That makes more sense. What's been happening in various parts of the Bronx is landlords are just seeing what they can get. I've seen studios listed at almost $2,000 (granted mainly in Riverdale but still - either decent square footage but not renovated, or small but renovated).
No, someone acquired the house for 570,000 a month ago but this is a new listing at 999,000 with an open house on 4/29. They are now trying to flip it.
That house is beautiful. Almost anywhere else in the city it would be at least 1.5M even in it's current condition.
My take is that whoever acquired it for 570 a month ago got a really fantastic deal somehow. I don't care how much work it needs. They are going to flip it pretty easy ... maybe not for 999 but at least 750 or 800. Quick 200,000 profit. I have seen much dumpier houses without half the bones go for 750 in Williamsbridge which is a much worse neighborhood.
No, someone acquired the house for 570,000 a month ago but this is a new listing at 999,000 with an open house on 4/29. They are now trying to flip it.
That house is beautiful. Almost anywhere else in the city it would be at least 1.5M even in it's current condition.
My take is that whoever acquired it for 570 a month ago got a really fantastic deal somehow. I don't care how much work it needs. They are going to flip it pretty easy ... maybe not for 999 but at least 750 or 800. Quick 200,000 profit. I have seen much dumpier houses without half the bones go for 750 in Williamsbridge which is a much worse neighborhood.
Well yeah if you flip it then of course you can get 750 or 800. However, we didn't see what the kitchen and the bathrooms looked like, and those are money pits. At a minimum $80,000-100,000 of work... Assuming there are no structural issues, etc. I'd say $20,000 - 30,000 for the kitchen and another $30,000 - 40,000 for the bathrooms and the rest goes for whatever the house needs.
Well yeah if you flip it then of course you can get 750 or 800. However, we didn't see what the kitchen and the bathrooms looked like, and those are money pits. At a minimum $80,000 of work... Assuming there are no structural issues, etc.
They are going to flip it without doing anything to it. I bet it was bough as a short sale or foreclosure type situation.
Open house is on 4/29. Check it out.
I know you don't like Bedford Park but it really isn't that bad at all and that happens to be a great landmark block.http://s-media.nyc.gov/agencies/lpc/lp/2339.pdf
The apartment is rent stabilized, and the $1750 is the preferential rent. I like saying "legal rent" because well legally they can charge that amount.
Ahh.... I pay $1600 for a new studio for one of the residences I live at, and you two split $1750... That's like $875 a piece for the two of you. Many moons ago I was paying $900 when I got my first apartment in the States. Even in Europe as a college student I paid about $1600 - 1700 a month for a one bedroom in Italy. lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2
They are going to flip it without doing anything to it. I bet it was bough as a short sale.
Open house is on 4/29.
I said 750 or 800 and I'll stick to it. I'll even watch this property and report back to you. Whoever acquired it for 570 stole it.
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But as many say in order to get the gentrification train rolling you have to have the people.
