Can Richard Carranza Integrate the Most Segregated School System in the Country? (New York: renting, crime)
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I think it is very difficult to achieve a high degree of racial integration in NYC because of the makeup of the student body: When 70% of the kids are black and brown, that doesn't leave a lot of white or Asian kids to integrate with.
Why is "brown" codeword for Hispanic?
And there already is a lot of Asian/Latino integration. It's common in Queens and Brooklyn, as well as the parts of The Bronx with a lot of Bengalis.
You tell me why everything has to revolve around white people. They control the nation’s academic institutions, the government, and the corporate sector.
And no, people in Cambria Heights are not happy about being shut out of opportunities that white people have.
There are reasons the civil rights movement happened to begin with. You sound like the apologists for slavery who said Black people were singing and dancing on the plantation during slavery. Neo confederates also said Black people were perfectly happy with Jim Crow.
The average household income in Cambria Heights is pretty high, I'm not sure what they're being shut out of.
And I'm not justifying oppresion, I'm just saying that it might not be important to many black parents that there are white kids in the schools.
I think it is very difficult to achieve a high degree of racial integration in NYC because of the makeup of the student body: When 70% of the kids are black and brown, that doesn't leave a lot of white or Asian kids to integrate with.
Exactly!
As of last census NYC is only about 33% white (non-Hispanic). Of that total number even less have children of primary or secondary school age. Those who do are mainly concentrated in areas with (surprise, surprise) large numbers of whites already. Areas like South Shore of Staten Island, UES, UES, Chelsea, Tribeca, West/Greenwich Village, etc...
At elementary school level there are only limited ways to "integrate" minorities into locally zoned (and mostly white) schools.
You can either bus/move children about (good luck with that). Bust up mainly white areas by moving minorities in (ditto). Or a variation of same by forcing "inclusionary" housing. That is making sure luxury and or other housing in well off (and usually mostly white areas) include a certain amount of "affordable" or "low income" housing.
Those last two have become code words for minorities (African Americans, Latino-Hispanic) since on average those households have lower incomes than whites.
You can see, well you can see how this is playing out on the UWS/Harlem as the DOE tries to force "integration" by whatever name they want to call their scheme.
Meanwhile out in Park Slope the uber liberal, progressive white parents are going with their own "diversity" scheme to make local public schools "inclusive".
Things like this work where you have high density housing. Out on Staten Island and other low density areas it is and would be a different story.
Those areas behave much like the suburbs; that is South Shore white parents simply will *NOT* stand for their kids being bused/sent over to North Shore. Period, stop, stick if fork in it, it's done. If the city pushes the issue white parents will simply pull their kids out of public schools and send them to private. That and or just pack up and move to NJ or elsewhere.
As of last census NYC is only about 33% white (non-Hispanic). Of that total number even less have children of primary or secondary school age. Those who do are mainly concentrated in areas with (surprise, surprise) large numbers of whites already. Areas like South Shore of Staten Island, UES, UES, Chelsea, Tribeca, West/Greenwich Village, etc...
At elementary school level there are only limited ways to "integrate" minorities into locally zoned (and mostly white) schools.
You can either bus/move children about (good luck with that). Bust up mainly white areas by moving minorities in (ditto). Or a variation of same by forcing "inclusionary" housing. That is making sure luxury and or other housing in well off (and usually mostly white areas) include a certain amount of "affordable" or "low income" housing.
Those last two have become code words for minorities (African Americans, Latino-Hispanic) since on average those households have lower incomes than whites.
You can see, well you can see how this is playing out on the UWS/Harlem as the DOE tries to force "integration" by whatever name they want to call their scheme.
Meanwhile out in Park Slope the uber liberal, progressive white parents are going with their own "diversity" scheme to make local public schools "inclusive".
Things like this work where you have high density housing. Out on Staten Island and other low density areas it is and would be a different story.
Those areas behave much like the suburbs; that is South Shore white parents simply will *NOT* stand for their kids being bused/sent over to North Shore. Period, stop, stick if fork in it, it's done. If the city pushes the issue white parents will simply pull their kids out of public schools and send them to private. That and or just pack up and move to NJ or elsewhere.
Plus a large chunk of the white population is observant Jews
Rich people aren’t going to send their children to school with a whole bunch of project kids. And if nyc forced them to, they will pack their bags or send them to private schools. They have options
They can do their lottery thing like they do for housing and allow 20% of the lucky kids in. Which helps with the numbers but not the problem pertaining to the other dozens of bad performing schools.
Because it’s more about class than anything here.
Rich people aren’t going to send their children to school with a whole bunch of project kids. And if nyc forced them to, they will pack their bags or send them to private schools. They have options
They can do their lottery thing like they do for housing and allow 20% of the lucky kids in. Which helps with the numbers but not the problem pertaining to the other dozens of bad performing schools.
One of the top public elementary schools in Manhattan is P.S. 6 on UES.
For years it was a well kept secret and often had plenty of room because parents in area overwhelmingly sent their children to private schools. So much "extra room" that parents from outside area could get waivers to send their children. This and or the children of those who work in area (building superintendents, janitors, doormen, housekeepers, etc... ) used their employers address to get their kids in.
Not no more.
Many UES parents like those on UWS, Tribeca, Chelsea, West Village, Greenwich Village and so forth discovered these jewels of local public grammar schools. They will send their kids to public for say K-5, then onto private/prep if necessary for 6 through high school. Whatever the public school lacks, these parents are more than able to write checks to cover.
i don't find nyc to be super segregated, i've been to a lot of other us cities and none of them looked more integrated. Boston looked considerably less intrgrated if anything.
what i do find though is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of organic white/black integration. In the past there were white flighting areas and now there are gentrifying areas (both cases "in transition").
this rings true for nyc ---west side of flatbush/sometimes now generalized to ditmas park was an exception to your observation from the 70s till about 2000 but gentrification and latino/asian immigration changed that.west flatbush saw flight/gentrification and new (non caribbean ) immigration pressures all in the space of 40 years.my family has been there since the depression.i am not aware of a similar demographic black/white stasis existing anywhere in the city hpoefully someone can provide additional examples.
but there is black/latino integration, white/latino itegration, white/latino/asian integration, black/latino/asian intregation, etc.
true again -- a huge swath of southwest brooklyn has schools/neighborhoods with asian ( east or south ),hispanic and white students attending the same schools ( students of arab background -- substantial group in sw brooklyn --are white by doe policy of course }.as the white catholic population continues to decline in the crescent from bay ridge to sheepshead bay white enrollment will not decline. However outside of coney island there is only a small african american population -- in the case of brighton beach i would venture that population - never large to begin with has shrunk.by way of example fort hamilton hs was recently reported as 29% latino, 30% asian and 34% white -- only 5% black.
In terms of historic segregation the large number of students attending catholic schools in the past surely played a role -- but of course the catholic schools are facing real demographic and financial challenges.
but why does everything have to revolve around white people? Maybe parents in cambria heights and laurelton are perfectly happy sending their kids to to the all black school districts there.
Because it’s more about class than anything here.
Rich people aren’t going to send their children to school with a whole bunch of project kids. And if nyc forced them to, they will pack their bags or send them to private schools. They have options
They can do their lottery thing like they do for housing and allow 20% of the lucky kids in. Which helps with the numbers but not the problem pertaining to the other dozens of bad performing schools.
The only equalizer of the school system would be to make Public School a mandatory government service and to outlaw private schools.
Don't count on it happening, and thus always take the upper 10% of NYC out of the school system- the same upper 10% who produces 90% of the wealth.
It's a huge image problem for NYC, and that's why de Blasio is finding ways to address it and deal with it.
Yes, Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansaw, Tennessee, North Carolina, Texas, Louisiana, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia all have more integrated school systems than NYC itself does.
It doesn't look good at all, and anyone trying to justify this is just plain in denial.
I remember reading a book, and I also saw a similar statement on PBS. Integration was only for the South, but not for the North. While integration died in the South, it remains intact and legal in the North. The hypocrite educated white liberals of the North traveled down south to eliminate segregation, but kept it alive in the North.
NYC school system is segregated by race, but also segregated by income. Class is a major problem here. Poor areas of the city where schools are have blacks, Hispanics and even poor Asian students. While upper income schools are mainly white. Staten Island a middle class borough is mostly white and thus has a majority white public school system. In NYC the working class lives amongst the working class, middle class lives amongst the middle class, and the upper class lives amongst the upper class. The best way to integrate schools in my opinion is the integrate classes together. But that wont happen. Do you think upper class parents want to share the same school with lower class or even middle class folks for example? NO!
As of right now as a nation, as a city, as a people. The Class War in America is dead and is increasingly dying in NYC. Those who are politically socially left put huge emphasis on race, gender and sex for the great number of problems in our nation and in our city. Class War does not bring much change or takes forever to bring change about. But when an institution, people, neighborhoods are labeled a sexist or racist, boy such people are feared to be labeled that and will quickly make changes even if they are extremely minor. I hope this race, sex and gender thing dies down soon.
Like here in Mott haven, I have noticed some transient folks who have children. I know for a fact that they do not send their kids to local public schools. All we have here is two parochial Catholic schools, and maybe one or two (ok) charter schools in the neighborhood for upper income parents children can attend. Even with gentrification, most public schools have yet to shift racial and economic demographics accept notable gems like those in Parkslope and DUMBO. Yes some have, but where do educated transplant mainly white parents send their kids to, or if not bus them? Can we label such people as racist, classist even though they are socially liberal? Or do such parents want the best outcome for their children academically but not within their domicile?
I don't think the school commissioner will be able to fully integrate the NYC school system. Parents will not want to share there safe space for their children with much more poorer children of color. Doing such will force parents to either move away from NYC to suburbs, bus their children to a school in another affluent neighborhood, or have their children attend private school like the Avenues which cost about 40k a year.
If you want to end racial segregation in NYC, it is not about mixing races, but mixing classes together.
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