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Originally Posted by dfc99
Market Rate in East New York? (LOL!) A risky venture at best but the developer will come out ahead no matter what. If not enough market rate renters sign up, there's always voucher/Section-8/homeless tenants to fill the place up.
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It's a huge risk considering the location and how far it is from Manhattan. Even though NYC has the best transportation city in the country, if not the world, ENY is still a far cry from Greenpoint, Williamsburg, Navy Yard, Downtown Brooklyn, Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens, Park Slope and even Sunset Park.
I'd rather develop Sunset Park from 4th Ave to the waterfront than focus on ENY/Brownsville only because you have the Broadway BMT and the 6th Ave IND lines running local and express along 4th Ave and both lines take you to Downtown and Midtown providing a one-seat ride to those locations.
In Brownsville and ENY, the 3 and 4 lines are southernmost along Livonia Ave, the A and C runs along Pitkin Ave, and the J and Z uses Fulton St before turning on to Jamaica Ave via Crescent St. with nearby Bway Jct providing the only transfer point as of today in that area, the lines are spaced out to ensure that coverage is there within ENY.
And if I were developing ENY, I'd rather focus on the southern portion of ENY than the northern portion, as the southern portion is closer to parkland plus nearby is the waterfront and the northern portion is nearby a cemetery and there's Highland Park, but it's not bigger than Spring Creek Park and Shiley Chisolm State Park.
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Originally Posted by Shizzles
Sounds like people are against this because the development will bring in people who don't look like them. That's unacceptable as a reason to block new development. The developer is promising over 500 units to low-working income families that wouldn't ordinarily have one. ENY can't remain 100% low income and expect to break the cycle of poverty and deprevation that currently harms it's residents.
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You also have to understand that there's not much affordable places in Bklyn left. Places that weren't even thought of as inhabitable such as Williamsburg and Greenpoint are the hottest neighborhoods in Bklyn and LIC in Queens is just another extension of Midtown Manhattan. DUMBO and the Navy Yard haven't had people living there and now both neighborhoods are inhabited to the point where the MTA has had to alter bus routes to serve the Navy Yard.
Parts of Bushwick are considered gentrified, and the old demarcation line of Vanderbilt Ave in Fort Green/Bed Stuy had been pushed further back to the point where nobody's sure if it's Franklin Ave or Nostrand Ave as well as almost all of the brownstones are worth at least a million, but as a former NYer and a former Brooklynite, all I can say is that there's little to no place left for the typical working class NYer like it used to be back in the 80s and 90s. My old neighborhood Flatbush has seen brand spanking new developments east of Nostrand from Empire all the way to Flatbush Ave and I wouldn't be surprised if you saw condos in Flatbush worth half a million.
Southern Brooklyn is the preserve for the remaining Italian, Irish, Jewish, and Russian groups and the never Chinese that's inhabiting Sunset Park and Bensonhurst and all those groups are doing well, while the groups in northern and central Brooklyn (Blacks and Latinos) are both disenfranchised to the point where either you accept the rent hikes or you leave to wherever.
I don't want to have an elitist view since I'm in no way an elitist, and I grew up in one of those hoods in central Brooklyn, but I want to see how Mayor Adams is going to handle this approach to housing other than public housing because I want to see blacks and Latinos still be a part of this city the way Italians, Jews, the Irish, the Polish, and the Chinese are a part of NY!
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Originally Posted by Gantz
Who said anything about trying to make it into a hip district? This building is literally a standard 80/20 rental. Nothing hip about it at all.
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There are a lot of rentals in the Upper East and West Side, too and not just condos. And we're not talking Chelsea or Soho, we're talking ENY, a workin class neighborhood full of blacks and Latinos. Hopefully, the developer can make the development something which can fit the current demographics of the neighborhood as opposed to trying to attract the stockbrokers and advertisers from Manhattan. NYC is more than just the stock market and the mainstream media, much more!
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Originally Posted by Shizzles
The problem is that what the people there can afford isn't enough to get a building like this constructed in NYC nor properly maintained. Don't get me wrong, NYC needs low income/working class housing, but building 100% or frankly even 50% low income housing is unrealistic. You need a large percentage of middle class and above folks to help pay for those units that are at very low prices to balance out the needs of building the structure and keeping it in good shape.
Secondly, concentrated poverty is never a good thing. There's a reason even people who grow up in ENY once they get solid jobs leave. Something has to break the cycle.
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The purpose of the housing projects was so low-income people can have a place to live and not be out on the streets. As somebody who was formerly homeless, it's no fun being in the streets. The projects was funded by the federal gov't and started to get built in the 1930's and 1940's because of the Great Depression and the mayors at that time wanted to clear slums for what they perceived to be better, more modern housing. The State Street Corridor in Chicago is a perfect example of what I'm talking about and it was the right call but mismanagement of the Chicago Housing Authority (CHA) casted a lot of the housing projects such as Cabrini green and Robert Taylor Homes to meet the fate of the wrecking ball and by 2000, very little of those housing projects are left.
Even though I understand that shifting a lot of low-income people to mixed income housing sounds like a great idea, I wouldn't touch any project with a wrecking ball neither because a lot of low-income people need housing, and while there's a lot of violence in those housing projects, there's also a lot of hard-working people who live there. It didn't work for Chicago, which is now the most violent city in America, and it's not going to work for NY if NY got rid of it's housing projects the way Chicago did.
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Originally Posted by Esacni
That's what people said about Bed-Stuy and Bushwick. Pull up streeteasy and take a look at what's on the market.
All it takes is a critical mass and that number isn't as high as people think. It also helps that transplants, in general are clueless as to the racial tensions in NYC. They think being the only white person on the block is "cool". It's hilarious but it's great. It's what has made gentrification possible.
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I'm curious to know which part of NYC did you grow up in. You do realize that NYC has always (and still is to some degree) been demarcated by ethnicities. It seems good that Bed-Stay and Bushwick are getting these new developments, but the problem is who'll inhabit them, the people who lived in the areas for decades or somebody else who hadn't lived there for over five years?
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Originally Posted by Esacni
When I was looking to buy, I looked at a few places in Bed-Stuy out of sheer curiosity because I was also looking in Williamsburg. As a person raised in NYC, I'd never think of moving my white ass into a majority black neighborhood. Not because there's anything wrong with it but moreso out of respect for boundaries.
However, you wouldn't believe these white dopes who were happily prancing around the neighborhood as if it was Oshkosh, Wisconsin. On the one hand I respect the gangster but on the other I was just confused. The old adage "ignorance is bliss" works wonders with gentrification.
Do or Die Bed-Stuy is now full of Calebs and Kelseys. If you told me that even 10 years ago, I would've laughed in your face.
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Bed-Stuy has always been a heavily black neighborhood since the 1950's when blacks started to move away from Harlem into Brooklyn, and blacks are still at this moment the majority. A lot of the "Calebs and Kelseys" won't be attending P.S. whatever and Boys and Girls High anytime soon as a majority of them will be educated in private schools so while it's nice that the "Calebs and Kelseys" are growing up in Bed-Stay, their school choice won't reflect the majority of people that have to put up with public and charter school.
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Originally Posted by Esacni
Bushwick is in FULL BLOWN gentrification mode post COVID. In 5 years that neighborhood will be completely different.
Gentrification would've been even more furious and reached further sooner but the MTA is completely incompetent as a public transit organization. In hindsight, bike lanes played and are playing an indispensable role in gentrification. Much more than even the MTA.
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I don't deny that but it would be sad to see Bushwich turn into what was once a German turned Italian turned Puerto Rican turned hipster/upper class neighborhood when the roots of that neighborhood had always been working class. Jackie Gleason crew up on 328 Chauncey St in Bed Stuy and it's always been a working class neighborhood even when it was white. I'd still be hard pressed to see Bed Stuy and Bushwick turn into the Upper East and West Sides when Park Slope and Brooklyn Heights served that purpose.
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Originally Posted by Coney
^This. Which is why remote places from Manhattan like Far Rockaway and ENY will never completely gentrify. The best one can hope for is that some Chassidic sect will construct a synagogue and center in ENY. Those ENY rowhouses at one time were quite nice and there are still some SFH. There's still a decent park with a playground if it was cleaned up.
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The Hasidics are moving out of NY and mainly into NJ, particularly Lakewood and Toms River.
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Originally Posted by Esacni
What's funny is that the gentrification crowd, especially the "activists", almost always arrive to the party too late to actually help anyone. Gentrification is in full swing (aka people already being prices out) and these clowns show up yelling about the obvious.
These people in East New York in the article are worrying about getting gentrified out and the same people who will yell about "gentrification" are now saying ENY "will never gentrify".
The irony is hilarious.
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