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I actually agree with this. I think Upstate leaders need to think outside of the box for themselves and start doing things that they are impowered to do in terms of consolidation and innovation. Like I mentioned before about districts, that has to be done to some degree and I also think that with all of the great public and private universities that are up here, perhaps forming alliances in order to have a central research and development location within each region of Upstate NY would make a lot of sense. Upstate NY could have multiple research locations that in turn can help create jobs here, instead of just job poaching, which is basically what is occurring when many other states are saying they have "created jobs". This could also increase the cache of these institutions on a national and global level as well.
What is scary is that many Upstate NY metros have an educational attainment that exceed or is on par with growing metros in the US. So, you have the talent already waiting and chopping at the bit to take these areas to a higher level, let alone many that would come back to these areas.
With all of this said and to be fair, there are still some good jobs up here for those people with the appropriate skills/education/experience.
You'd need people to create businesses in upstate NY, as in big businesses. California and Texas have a number of big businesses headquartered there. South Florida serves as the US headquarters for many Latin American companies.
Unfortunately, upstate NY never was a place for business, and the big businesses that were headquartered moved away and died or diminished.
Upstate people tend to hold very provincial attitudes towards people downtown state and on the coast. Unfortunately, the people with money to invest and finance new businesses (the billionaires and multimillionaires) live DOWNSTATE.
And lets be honest, the real money from the universities upstate also comes from elsewhere.
Just when I start to think that you are not such an idiot, you always find a way to prove me wrong.
"The figures, estimates for July 2013, showed that New York had about 19.65 million residents, while Florida had 19.55 million, with Florida gaining more than 230,000 people from a year earlier. New York’s growth was more modest, with some 75,000 new residents.
Those numbers represent the continuation of longstanding trends in population, as new foreign-born immigrants and other transplants flock to Florida while New York’s growth continues to suffer under the weight of stagnant or declining populations in upstate areas."
According to the NY Times, which cites the Census Bureau figures, Florida's population growth is being lead by immigration and Florida's population grew three times as fast as New York's. Not retirees, but immigration is leading the growth. Upstate NY is not that attractive to immigrants, and this is not changing. The weather is a huge part of it. Lack of jobs is another part (and the economic situation is not going to change anytime soon either).
"“It’s to be expected,” Mr. Vink said, adding that “if trends hold in 2014, Florida will take over.”
New York's problem is that downstate policies don't work for upstate communities. Downstate dominates (and thereby is destroying) upstate NY. To me, New York is one of the most beautiful states in the country, but because of NYC's domination of state politics, my family will be out of here as soon as physically possible. Until these two distinctly different regions figure out a way to govern themselves individually, nothing will change because of NYC's overwhelming ownership of most of the state's population.
I agree with you here. Upstate NY is very beautiful country. I lived there when I went to Cornell, and afterwards I lived in Cortland for awhile.
But that does not change the fact that upstate NY was far too dependent upon manufacturing, which fled the state. I don't blame downstate for it though. The Northeast and the Midwest were heavily unionized. Manufacturers prefer to be in the right to work states of the South (where unions were weak). And that's assuming the companies didn't shift manufacturing operations out of the country (outsourced to Asian or Mexican firms). Even the US auto industry is increasing operations and production in Mexico.
The last big sugar plant in NYC, Domino, was unionized. In 2004 or so, the workers were foolish enough to go on strike. Shortly after Domino's ended up CLOSING the SUGAR FACTORY!
Industry fled downstate too, its just that downstate had business, finance, tech, media, advertising, medicine, hospitality, education to fill in the voids.
After manufacturing fled upstate, areas like the finger lakes had just education and prisons filling the void.
You'd need people to create businesses in upstate NY, as in big businesses. California and Texas have a number of big businesses headquartered there. South Florida serves as the US headquarters for many Latin American companies.
Unfortunately, upstate NY never was a place for business, and the big businesses that were headquartered moved away and died or diminished.
Upstate people tend to hold very provincial attitudes towards people downtown state and on the coast. Unfortunately, the people with money to invest and finance new businesses (the billionaires and multimillionaires) live DOWNSTATE.
And lets be honest, the real money from the universities upstate also comes from elsewhere.
Actually, there were and to a smaller degree, are big businesses based in Upstate and I think the attitude goes both ways, to be honest. Upstate NY now has more smaller companies that have picked up some or much of the slack. There has been some innovation up here to a degree, but there needs to be more.
Like others have mentioned, NY State is different in that it has the biggest city/metro in the country, which tends to dominate things. With that said, Upstate NY is about on par with a state like NC in terms of GDP, give or take, if I'm not mistaken.
Also, manufacturing peaked in the US in 1979 and many manufacturers have left the country, let alone the state. Now, things are more centered around Eds and Meds up here with some engineering and tech companies/jobs. I've already posted a thread about companies and openings that are up here.
In fact, I'd check out that website for general information about Upstate NY. Here is some more interesting information: Growth of New York counties | rocdocs
As for Florida, much of their growth is due to retirees. So, it isn't like people are necessarily moving there for jobs like some other Southern states.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 12-30-2013 at 02:27 PM..
Actually, there were and to a smaller degree, are big businesses based in Upstate and I think the attitude goes both ways, to be honest. Upstate NY now has more smaller companies that have picked up some or much of the slack. There has been some innovation up here to a degree, but there needs to be more.
Like others have mentioned, NY State is different in that it has the biggest city/metro in the country, which tends to dominate things. With that said, Upstate NY is about on par with a state like NC in terms of GDP, give or take, if I'm not mistaken.
Also, manufacturing peaked in the US in 1979 and many manufacturers have left the country, let alone the state. Now, things are more centered around Eds and Meds up here with some engineering and tech companies/jobs. I've already posted a thread about companies and openings that are up here.
In fact, I'd check out that website for general information about Upstate NY. Here is some more interesting information: Growth of New York counties | rocdocs
As for Florida, much of their growth is due to retirees. So, it isn't like people are necessarily moving there for jobs like some other Southern states.
The Census Bureau cited much of the growth as being due to immigration, not retirees. And upstate NY does not get immigrants in the same numbers of portions as places like California, Florida, Texas, or Downstate. It just doesn't. It doesn't mean that it doesn't get immigrants (every state gets immigrants), but it's just not in the same numbers.
As far as big businesses go, I name many Fortune 500 companies headquartered in NYC, or that have major operations there. Upstate NY as FAR FEWER. And in term of a tech sector, again upstate NY is no California or Texas or even a North Carolina. And actually, in terms of global companies, upstate NY isn't a Florida either.
Miami is a Latin American/Caribbean gateway and center of business/commerce. Upstate NY has no equivalent.
I'm one of those people who graduated from an upstate university. Put it like this, for the vast majority of people there was absolutely no reason to stay.
The Census Bureau cited much of the growth as being due to immigration, not retirees. And upstate NY does not get immigrants in the same numbers of portions as places like California, Florida, Texas, or Downstate. It just doesn't. It doesn't mean that it doesn't get immigrants (every state gets immigrants), but it's just not in the same numbers.
As far as big businesses go, I name many Fortune 500 companies headquartered in NYC, or that have major operations there. Upstate NY as FAR FEWER. And in term of a tech sector, again upstate NY is no California or Texas or even a North Carolina. And actually, in terms of global companies, upstate NY isn't a Florida either.
Miami is a Latin American/Caribbean gateway and center of business/commerce. Upstate NY has no equivalent.
I'm one of those people who graduated from an upstate university. Put it like this, for the vast majority of people there was absolutely no reason to stay.
Upstate is in the same state and I didn't say that Upstate got as many immigrants as those states. Why would anyone compare Upstate to those states as a whole? Perhaps you can compare Upstate to those states outside of their major city or 2, but not to the whole state.
Again, there are tech jobs, with many concentrated in the Capital Region and the Ithaca area, with some jobs scattered throughout the rest of Upstate. No one was comparing the tech industry up here to another state, but the comparison was in terms of GDP.
I already addressed the company topic by saying that there are many smaller companies, with some bigger companies up here, even if they have scaled back. There are still some good jobs up here for people with the appropriate background.
If you didn't want to stay, that is your choice. No big deal, but I just think some people aren't necessarily aware of what is up here or just go by what is told to them. That is what I'm saying
Florida ended up not displacing New York. That is, they did not displace New York yet. It is inevitable that they will.
That said, the trends of the 21st century will be interesting. The desert states in the Southwest are clearly not sustainable. Is Upstate New York, with its plentiful freshwater supply, in for a comeback?
Personally I do not want New York to be a right-to-work state. I am not trying to start a political debate, I am just saying, if people and businesses want to move to right-to-work states, they have many states to choose from. New York's employment laws may make it uncompetitive (for now) but I do not want them substantially changed.
Upstate is in the same state and I didn't say that Upstate got as many immigrants as those states. Why would anyone compare Upstate to those states as a whole? Perhaps you can compare Upstate to those states outside of their major city or 2, but not to the whole state.
Again, there are tech jobs, with many concentrated in the Capital Region and the Ithaca area, with some jobs scattered throughout the rest of Upstate. No one was comparing the tech industry up here to another state, but the comparison was in terms of GDP.
I already addressed the company topic by saying that there are many smaller companies, with some bigger companies up here, even if they have scaled back. There are still some good jobs up here for people with the appropriate background.
If you didn't want to stay, that is your choice. No big deal, but I just think some people aren't necessarily aware of what is up here or just go by what is told to them. That is what I'm saying
Good post.
The thing is, Upstate may not be booming. Parts of it are doing better than others. It may not be easy to get a job upstate, but the people who do get jobs generally get "better" jobs than many other states. I feel like New York's economy is a lot more like Western Europe in that way.
BTW -- I would still personally leave in a second for some sunny weather. But the fact that I have not been able to find a comparable salary/position in other states at least says something about New York. I like what I do and I would prefer to do it elsewhere but I am not about to make less money.
Florida ended up not displacing New York. That is, they did not displace New York yet. It is inevitable that they will.
That said, the trends of the 21st century will be interesting. The desert states in the Southwest are clearly not sustainable. Is Upstate New York, with its plentiful freshwater supply, in for a comeback?
Personally I do not want New York to be a right-to-work state. I am not trying to start a political debate, I am just saying, if people and businesses want to move to right-to-work states, they have many states to choose from. New York's employment laws may make it uncompetitive (for now) but I do not want them substantially changed.
Yes, the desert states in the Southwest are sustainable as water use policies are changed. Cities like San Diego now recycle sewage water into drinking water. California, if it wanted to, could filter freshwater out of ocean water (its what they do in the middle east.).
New York's slow decline has been DECADES in the making and it shows no current sign of reversal. Put it like this, New York was once the nation's most populous state, once the center of the film industry, once the center of the computer industry, etc. It has lost all of those things.
Technology (broadband/wifi) and cheap airfares make it possible to do business anywhere in the world. New York won't do a come back until it becomes a right to work state and reforms its taxes. It doesn't have to do that, and if it doesn't it will just continue to decline. But even if it became a right to work state, factor in industrial development around the nation and the world and upstate NY will never be what it was before.
Upstate is in the same state and I didn't say that Upstate got as many immigrants as those states. Why would anyone compare Upstate to those states as a whole? Perhaps you can compare Upstate to those states outside of their major city or 2, but not to the whole state.
Again, there are tech jobs, with many concentrated in the Capital Region and the Ithaca area, with some jobs scattered throughout the rest of Upstate. No one was comparing the tech industry up here to another state, but the comparison was in terms of GDP.
I already addressed the company topic by saying that there are many smaller companies, with some bigger companies up here, even if they have scaled back. There are still some good jobs up here for people with the appropriate background.
If you didn't want to stay, that is your choice. No big deal, but I just think some people aren't necessarily aware of what is up here or just go by what is told to them. That is what I'm saying
Not nearly enough to retain or to even register with the graduates of most upstate universities. Overall its grim, and people typically get much better offers elsewhere. And people aren't simply going by what their told. As you get close to graduation you look for work with an open mind. I did. Upstate NY had few options and overall just IS NOT a DIVERSE economy.
Also, keep in mind that a good portion of the student body at upstate universities are from other states or countries, and if they are from New York they are from downstate. So no one has that much of an attachment to upstate to begin with, and the cold winters don't help.
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