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Like Jesus hanging around with adulterers, publicans, tax collectors, drunkards and other sinners shunned by polite society....
im not jesus, never said i was.
a mexican expression "digame con quien andas y te dire quien eres".
tell me who you run around with- and i will tell you who you are.
i dont wana be around people that cheat and lie, if i do-- my turn is comin up soon.
This has never happened, none of my cheating friends have revealed themselves to be liars, backstabbers etc.
Perhaps your criteria for friendship differ from mine, which would explain your differing results. And it might also explain why you don't have any 25 year friendships, but of course that could be explained by age as well.
Maybe my experiences will expand as I get older but for now I guess I haven't met any chronic cheaters who had what it takes for me to keep them as a friend. A friend being somebody who isn't going to talk crap behind my back, use me as an alibi, or force me to choose their side.
I do have a lot of imperfect friends (drug abusers, mental illness) and I'm okay with these flaws. Interestingly these people have never cheated. I still have the sense that they are reliable and trustworthy.
Once again, this isn't just any old character flaw. If someone is able to betray the trust of someone they pledged to be faithful to forever, then it begs the question as to just how trustworthy they are. If they can betray the person they swore to commit their life to, the person who's even the mother or father of their kids and risk their kids' welfare by cheating, then you have to wonder whether you could trust them. Before the cheating, you had to know you ranked below their spouse. So what does it say when they betray the trust of someone who's supposed to be more important to them than you are?
It doesn't say anything to me, because I believe that what other people do in their marriages has no bearing on me. If you feel other marriages do have a bearing on you, so be it, but you have to understand that it's a rather unusual viewpoint.
Do you tell your friends that you expect them to conduct themselves in their marriage a certain way in order to remain your friend? Or do you merely judge their actions as you go along, based upon what info your friends reveal to you?
Last edited by OngletNYC; 09-07-2010 at 02:14 PM..
Not all cheaters are cut from the same cloth. Of course, people who live in a black and white world don't see it this way. But that's ok, because they will sort their friends out in such a way that the rest of the world doesn't need to be concerned with being judged by them for whatever reason.
People cheat for any number of reasons, which has been discussed on this forum ad nauseam. Some have been cheated on themselves and seek revenge, some just like variety in their diet, some are just insecure and can't say no to the opposite sex, some feel their marriage is no longer important, and on it goes.
I could never turn my back on a friend who was engaged in an affair. It's not my business, and even if he/she shared that information with me, I would never judge them for it or end our friendship. I know there are folks like Denny who will say it's a reflection on yourself if you choose to remain friends with someone who cheats, but not all of us live in a black and white world. I find that people who have lived under less than ideal circumstances in their lives are more tolerant and compassionate of others. Folks who have rarely been challenged or truly put to the test tend to follow a more rigid philosophy.
The issue is not whether you see the world in black and white. Obviously, if you kill someone, your reasons need to be taken into account. Were you killing them in self-defense or were you just killing them for their wallet? But I have yet to find an analogous reason to justify cheating. So your spouse is no longer affectionate with you? So your spouse is having an affair? Neither of those justify cheating and saying so doesn't mean I or the people who think like me live in a black-and-white world. Frankly, I think this is a line people use to avoid making tough decisions. They learn their friend is cheating and look the other way. That's just cowardly. Washing your hands of it by saying it's none of your business is a cop-out. Like it or not, you ARE involved. Your friend made it your business the moment they let you in on their secret. If they didn't want to put you in a position where you had to cover them, then they shouldn't have let you know what they were doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OngletNYC
It doesn't say anything to me, because I believe that what other people do in their marriages has no bearing on me. If you feel other marriages do have a bearing on you, so be it, but you have to understand that it's a rather unusual viewpoint.
Do you tell your friends that you expect them to conduct themselves in their marriage a certain way in order to remain your friend? Or do you merely judge their actions as you go along, based upon what info your friends reveal to you?
It's not an issue of what your friends do in their marriage. But their behavior in general speaks to the kind of people they are and because you call them your friend, it reflects on you. As for your question, the answer is the latter. I judge their actions as we go along, based on what they reveal to me. If I'm been friends with someone for 20 years, then it means I think they're a person of good character. But if after 20 years, they tell me they're cheating on their wife, then the conclusion I'll come to is that either this person isn't the person I thought they were OR they never were and just mislead me for the duration of our friendship.
It's not an issue of what your friends do in their marriage. But their behavior in general speaks to the kind of people they are and because you call them your friend, it reflects on you. As for your question, the answer is the latter. I judge their actions as we go along, based on what they reveal to me. If I'm been friends with someone for 20 years, then it means I think they're a person of good character. But if after 20 years, they tell me they're cheating on their wife, then the conclusion I'll come to is that either this person isn't the person I thought they were OR they never were and just mislead me for the duration of our friendship.
I totally disagree; I simply don't judge people's actions as we go along. Other than a deal breaker being thrown in my face - murder and child molestation come to mind - I don't continue to judge a person who reaches friend status.
I would guess that I have fewer friend than you, and I have had them for a lengthier time period than what you've experienced. That, and you simply have more deal breakers than I. Infidelity is a deal breaker for you, but not for me, and that's fair enough. There's no need to try to force each other into a different point of view.
If they didn't want to put you in a position where you had to cover them, then they shouldn't have let you know what they were doing.
But if after 20 years, they tell me they're cheating on their wife, then the conclusion I'll come to is that either this person isn't the person I thought they were OR they never were and just mislead me for the duration of our friendship.
These two statements are contradictory. Do you want them to confide in you or not?
I don't tell my friends anything about my affairs. This is not an effort to mislead them, it is more of a way of sparing them this kind of agonizing over how they should handle it.
Also, like the man said, don't share your troubles with people, half of them don't want to hear about it, the other half will be happy to hear you are having problems.
I totally disagree; I simply don't judge people's actions as we go along. Other than a deal breaker being thrown in my face - murder and child molestation come to mind - I don't continue to judge a person who reaches friend status.
I would guess that I have fewer friend than you, and I have had them for a lengthier time period than what you've experienced. That, and you simply have more deal breakers than I. Infidelity is a deal breaker for you, but not for me, and that's fair enough. There's no need to try to force each other into a different point of view.
The reason I continue to judge my friends and why I'm expect them to continue judging me is because we all know that people aren't static. People change over time. A number of my friends have been my friends since grade school. They and I have changed a lot in that time, but the reason we're still friends is because we've all lived up to each other standards. Some of my childhood friends are no longer more my friends because they turned (or simply revealed themselves) into people I could no longer respect. But why would give someone a pass just because they've reached friend status? Would you do that for a husband or BF? Of course not. You could be married to someone for 30 years but if they cheat on you, you're not going to say "I don't judge you now that you've reached husband status." Judging your friends isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's not like you're telling yourself you're better than them. You're simply asking whether this is someone you want in life. But people make these kinds of ongoing evaluations with everyone. It doesn't bother me one bit if my friends are still evaluating me. It tells me that I can't coast, that I can't do something majorly wrong like cheat on my wife, and assume my friends will just give me a pass because I've earned the "get out of jail free" card.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Book Lover 21
These two statements are contradictory. Do you want them to confide in you or not?
I don't tell my friends anything about my affairs. This is not an effort to mislead them, it is more of a way of sparing them this kind of agonizing over how they should handle it.
Where's the contradiction? Confiding in someone doesn't mean you tell them everything going on in your life. I don't expect my married friends to tell me all the details about their marriages. I expect them to be selective about what information they share. If they're having an affair, they can either tell me or not. If they choose not to tell me, that's their business. I don't go around asking my married friends if they're being faithful. But I assume they are because none of them seem like the kind of people who would do such a thing. Now if one of them came to me and told me they were, it's not like I'd go running to their spouse to rat them out. The exception would be if I considered their spouse a friend as well. But there's no way I'd look the other way for them either. Friends don't put each other into such awkward positions.
The reason I continue to judge my friends and why I'm expect them to continue judging me is because we all know that people aren't static. People change over time. A number of my friends have been my friends since grade school. They and I have changed a lot in that time, but the reason we're still friends is because we've all lived up to each other standards. Some of my childhood friends are no longer more my friends because they turned (or simply revealed themselves) into people I could no longer respect. But why would give someone a pass just because they've reached friend status? Would you do that for a husband or BF? Of course not. You could be married to someone for 30 years but if they cheat on you, you're not going to say "I don't judge you now that you've reached husband status." Judging your friends isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's not like you're telling yourself you're better than them. You're simply asking whether this is someone you want in life. But people make these kinds of ongoing evaluations with everyone. It doesn't bother me one bit if my friends are still evaluating me. It tells me that I can't coast, that I can't do something majorly wrong like cheat on my wife, and assume my friends will just give me a pass because I've earned the "get out of jail free" card.
Fair enough, it's your life, you are free to set your criterion for friendship in the manner you see fit. But for me, I don't continue to judge my friends, especially not based on their interactions with their spouses. I don't think it's any of my business to judge.
Nope. My opinion of her has already changed. But again, that doesn't mean I'm tossing her to the side of the road. This woman saw me through some tough times and was very loyal during difficult circumstances (at personal cost to her). That doesn't mean she gets a free pass to all sorts of ridiculous behavior, but I will try to support her emotionally and help her see the right thing to do. Maybe if she feels love and support from her family and friends, she will be able to summon up the strength to cut out this cheating.
Sorry I'm late on this response..
I didn't mean to judge you. It seems like you are a good friend and yes I believe in sticking with friends even if they make mistakes, but it has a lot to do with thier attitude about thier mistakes and whether they make a habit of it. Both of which my friend scored reeeally poorly on.
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Like Jesus hanging around with adulterers, publicans, tax collectors, drunkards and other sinners shunned by polite society....
