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I'm a big Boardwalk Empire fan and I like how everyone on the show dresses, a lot of it would be considered "formal" by today's standards. Not sure I'd want to dress up like that everyday but Nucky and especially Chalky look pretty darn dapper on the show. I think it might slowly be coming back around to that kind of style just judging from the suits that seem to be in fashion these days.
I saw the downward trend starting about 25 years ago. I believe it's all about entitlement.
The one thing I hear all over the place these days, which is probably supposed to indicate respect, is addressing females of all ages as Miss....(insert their first name). Miss Jane. Miss Jacque. Miss Kathy. Miss....and so forth. I really detest that. I guess it's better than a lot of other forms of address, but I really don't like it at all. It is so subservient.
Where my two granddaughters take dance classes, they address the teachers as Miss Rose, Miss Marylou, Miss Cindy. (There is only one male teacher and they address him as John. I must remember to ask why the distinction) At acting classes, the adults call the teacher by her given name as we're all friends anyway, but in her children's classes, she is called Miss Paige. Now, all of these Misses are actually Mrs. but at least there is a modicum of respect being shown. And it might be an encouragement to point out that an honorific is the preferred way of addressing one's elders.
Growing up, lol, we addressed our friend's mothers as "(insert friend's name)'s Mother."
I used to babysit as a teenager, and most of the kids were instructed (by their parents) to call me Miss "K". I liked that--the kids and I did have a more informal relationship, but it subconsciously pointed out that I did have some authority over them (at least while I was on the clock.)
We've had a number of threads that touch upon this issue from all different perspectives, and I see them as all part of one over-arching issue: the increasing informality in our society.
Hardly anyone dresses up for things anymore.
People scoff at the idea of wearing "professional attire" to interviews and in the workplace.
Fewer people seem to care about proper language, usage, spelling, and grammar.
Too many people hug people at every greeting, even people they hardly know.
Rules for kids are more and more lax (ex. they can be picky eaters and the parents allow it).
We think nothing of seeing famous people, even our President, in very casual, even unprofessional behavior.
The whole idea of etiquette and good manners is rejected by more and more people.
Public displays of affection, even sexual affection are "normal," and if you're annoyed by them, there must eb something wrong with you.
Etc, etc, etc.
I recently re-read a Jane Austen book, and re-watched the movie based on it, and I was suddenly struck with a longing for the "formality" in their society. Of course to people today, this formality would be an extreme, and even I would bristle at some of it. But I feel like something has really been lost. I also like the formality in Downton Abbey, which was closer to our time, being in the 20th century.
But I like the ideas of:
People dressing appropriately for dinner and special events. Sure, dressing up for dinner when it's just your own nuclear family might be extreme. But if you have guests, wouldn't it be nice for everyone to dress up? I mean, show some respect for your hosts and your guests.
People, both wealthy and poor, being taught manners, and expected to show them. Everyone called their elders and people they aren't acquainted with "Madam" and "Sir." Not "yo," "dude," or "hey you."
There was a nice "bubble" around people regarding physical contact. You didn't hug strangers, casual friends, or colleagues. A couple beginning to date might hold hands, or walk arm-in-arm. Of course, I don't doubt they still engaged in sex outside of marriage, but it was kept private, not on display, and not pushed out into people's faces. Public displays of affection, like excessive slurpy tongue-kissing, were considered vulgar.
Couples might have separate bedrooms. Okay, I know I'm in the minority here, but I never saw the purpose in couples having to sleep together. Of course there's the fun stuff we all enjoy in bed. But after that's over, I'd much rather we retire to our separate beds to stretch out and be comfortable. No, we choose to get elbowed and kicked, sleeping next to someone snoring, making us hot & sweaty, and disturbing our sleep. I'd much rather have my own room, and have my husband "pay a call" on me, and then leave. Or preferably, I'd pay a call on him, and then leave, so my own bed isn't messed up.
I even like when married couples would call each other "Mr.__" and "Mrs.___." Yes, that kind of formality would be over-the-top today, but it sure seemed to help couples treat each other respectfully. Even if you get into a serious fight, you're less likely to get nasty and strike a low-blow when you're referring to your partner as "Mrs." or "Mr."
In a professional setting, you would call your superior "Mr." or "Mrs." Today we call the CEO "Bob" and our immediate boss "Katie." You didn't expect the president of your company or your boss to be your buddy.
Even poor people observed certain rules & expectations of civility. It wasn't just a "snooty rich people thing." People had at least rough concepts of honor and decency. The boundaries of what each person or group considered honorable or decent or acceptable might have varied a little, but there were basic agreed-upon concepts. For example, getting into a loud argument in public would be considered embarrassing to people from every social stratum.
Kids were expected to obey their parents and other adults in authority. They had to show respect. If your mother or father said to eat that piece of food that you dislike, you ate it. If you tried to argue, you'd experience punishment. If you acted up in school, the teachers could take action and your parents would be in full agreement. None of this meant that parents didn't love their kids as much as parents today. In fact, it shows they loved them so much that they wanted to ensure they became successful, productive, honorable citizens.
Does anyone else agree with me, even in part? Do you wish we still had some more formality to our social interactions?
Yes, I do. Society has become so barbaric and trashy as a whole. I was raised by eastern European grandparents here in the USA and I believe children should be disciplined and quiet in public, that people should dress appropriately for the event, that class and politeness should be the norm, etc. What some people see as "casual", I view as a sign of lack of self respect, laziness, etc. I feel justified in "looking down my nose" at people who behave in such a manner.
I saw the downward trend starting about 25 years ago. I believe it's all about entitlement.
The one thing I hear all over the place these days, which is probably supposed to indicate respect, is addressing females of all ages as Miss....(insert their first name). Miss Jane. Miss Jacque. Miss Kathy. Miss....and so forth. I really detest that. I guess it's better than a lot of other forms of address, but I really don't like it at all. It is so subservient.
It's only subservient if used among people who are supposed to be peers. If employees had to call their superiors in the corporate hierarchy "Mr." or "Miss" [First name], that would sound oddly subservient. If a twelve-year-old calls his mother's best friend, "Miss Jackie," that isn't subservient; it's respectful of his elder.
Not long ago, there was a thread here that raised the issue of how a divorced man's young children addressed their mother's new love interest. For reasons that I won't elaborate again, I am in favor of "Mr. Mike" as opposed to "Uncle Mike."
It's only subservient if used among people who are supposed to be peers. If employees had to call their superiors in the corporate hierarchy "Mr." or "Miss" [First name], that would sound oddly subservient. If a twelve-year-old calls his mother's best friend, "Miss Jackie," that isn't subservient; it's respectful of his elder.
Not long ago, there was a thread here that raised the issue of how a divorced man's young children addressed their mother's new love interest. For reasons that I won't elaborate again, I am in favor of "Mr. Mike" as opposed to "Uncle Mike."
Why not Mike?
Why does any sort of title have to be mandated in that sort of situation?
Why Mr., though? Unless the children are also being addressed as miss and mister. It implies he has some sort of elevated position over the children simply by being a boyfriend.
His "elevated" position is that he is an adult, not their peer, and as of yet, he does not have any official relationship with the children that warrants something more familiar.
His "elevated" position is that he is an adult, not their peer, and as of yet, he does not have any official relationship with the children that warrants something more familiar.
I'm more for formality than not....but that isn't something I would go for at least not in today's society.
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