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We have homes in the $300-400k and homes beyond a few million in our neighborhood. Pretty much everyone has a yard and pool guy.
External trappings do not tell the whole story, as many could be living well beyond their means.
If someone can afford a $300k+ house, I would think they could easily afford "help."
It doesn't matter if their income is real or put-on (in my case I know it is real, because I know how they got their money through various conversations over several years) the fact is they are finding some way to spend more money than a person like me could or should, limiting my ability to engage in as many activities as them, weakening the ability to form a strong bond.
If I decide to live beyond my means to keep up with them, I still don't see how a true friendship could form as it would be built on lies, don't you think?
Yes, I think it is. I have an uncle who is a 1%er, and he has several friends and neighbors that are top 10%-20%ers. When I lived back home in TN, my uncle would often take me and my dad out on his yacht, sometimes we'd get to go to the country club, etc. Otherwise, I think you'd need to have common love, like some form of exercise or hobby.
If someone can afford a $300k+ house, I would think they could easily afford "help."
It doesn't matter if their income is real or put-on (in my case I know it is real, because I know how they got their money through various conversations over several years) the fact is they are finding some way to spend more money than a person like me could or should, limiting my ability to engage in as many activities as them, weakening the ability to form a strong bond.
If I decide to live beyond my means to keep up with them, I still don't see how a true friendship could form as it would be built on lies, don't you think?
Point is that there is a big difference between $300k house and $3mil house and the people living in those homes would have yard guys, pool guys, might even drive the same car...
I have friends in apartments, friends who live with parents, friends who own oil wells, friends who live in $100k houses, friends who have many houses, etc.
I think that class is one of the biggest factors in choosing and maintaining friends. As I look at my circle of close friends, they all are solidly middle-class, college-educated, and can afford to do things and go places. However, my closest friend is radically different: some college education, will be content on $30K/yr. (albeit in a low COL area). I have two masters degrees, he has none. It's never an issue with us, and that's the awesome part of the friendship. Sports is the one medium that brings us together more than anything- it's not cost-prohibitive for either of us to play/attend games.
Most of my close friends are above me in financial status. Until recently they were very very above me. Some of them inspired and assisted me in lifting myself out of poverty into a better life. Still not their level but much better. A couple are downright wealthy. Their money is not why we are friends. They are friends because of the kinds of people they are and the kind of person I am and strive to be. We enjoy the same hobbies and interests and have great conversations. They have other hobbies and interests that they enjoy and they have their friends that they do those things with. It does not bother me that they have those friends and experiences. Sometimes they are generous and I get to have some experiences I might not otherwise have but I never expect it or ask for those things.
It is easily possible to have great friends who are above or below you financially if you share common grounds intellectually and in the activities you enjoy together.
From my experience it is not. And it's not because the wealthier person is snobby or doesn't want to interact with the lower income person, but because the lifestyles are too different.
We are lower income. After we buy groceries and pay our bills, we don't have much leftover for doing fun things or going out. I had some friends who are wealthy. Not just high middle income, but in the top 1% or close to it. They could do whatever they wanted whenever, without checking their bank accounts, while I have to count my pennies and know how much everything will cost before committing to an outting. Sometimes I couldn't go because we just didn't have the money that week. I often did free things with them like parks or in home play dates, but had to be left out sometimes because of this. After a few years our friendships desolved for a number of reasons, but I can't help but think this was part of it. They would talk about their vacations or shopping or outtings and I didn't mind, but sometimes they seemed uncomfortable talking about that stuff in front of me.
So what do you all think? Anyone else in this situation have a different experience?
Yes there are various possibilities, although in general, the rule you mentioned would apply. It's all up to the persons. I do know some 1% who are happy to keep friendship ongoing because they want it, so they keep catching up with everyone regularly. That is difficult though. It is indeed easier when the social classes correspond but old friends from school are irreplaceable so it makes sense.
So one example is that the 1% always invite her friend at her place for lunch or tea time so that she does not have to worry about money for example. She knows she's the one who needs to give the hand and for her friend, she would do it.
It's pretty tough, as the priorities and social outlets are different. We are upper-middle class and recently met what we thought were an upper class couple, close to our age through a set of mutual friends.
These people were extravagant and flashy: 5 cars (3 Porsches), 5,000 square foot home, home was filled with unnecessary items (cluttered with junk), flashy clothing, jewellry, etc
We are a lot more practical and live a minimalist lifestyle: smaller home in a great neighborhood, modest cars, nice clothes, etc
After meeting them, we decided that they were probably not really upper class. While they had the material possessions (and probably poor because of spending all those $$$), they lacked the manners and habits of the true upper class.
Bottom line: our spending habits were so different, we could never be comfortable being friends with them.
Interesting question. I've spent a lifetime in committed savings and parsimony. Most of my coworkers would by local standards be described as upper-middle-class… gated "communities", new minivan with leather and electric-everything, ballet/lacrosse/judo for the kids (and often private-school), etc. I instead live in a house without properly functioning indoor plumbing, iffy HVAC system, home-built furniture and no cell-phone or TV. My cars are mostly rusted jalopies from the 1990s, and with some frequency I'm forced to effect roadside repairs. My diet heavily features canned tuna. My shopping is mostly at Aldi's, Wal-Mart or thrift-stores. By mien and habit, I'm lower-class, and something of a laughing-stock amongst my coworkers. The actual financial reality is, well, shall we say in the diametrically opposite extreme. Those amongst my coworkers who suspect this, think that I'm a fanatically obsessed idiot. In conversation with new acquaintances at work, I'd refer to myself as "Croesus in rags".
The great difficulty with "making friends" amongst persons who share my lifestyle is that we lack cultural consonance. We speak differently. We have different tastes, hobbies, values. I completely miss references to television, popular "music", sports, celebrities, the latest commercials. I don't smoke, don't have tattoos, don't follow NASCAR, don't drink Bud Lite. I don't have Thomas Kinkade paintings in my house, or licensed NFL merchandise. Meanwhile, the upper-middle-class takes pains to be reasonably polite (such is their nature), but I rarely get invited to their dinner-parties; I'd make a poor impression on their children.
What I crave is neither acceptance by the Proles or prized access to fine-society, but to cultivate the acquaintance of people who can pepper their conversations with literary references [original text deleted, as I came across an unfortunate overlap with a rather unsavory dialog in a similar thread].
America is a strange amalgam of egalitarianism and tribalism. Our class distinctions are subtle. Our patricians don't overtly snub our masses; that would be gauche and uncouth – even dangerous. Our masses don't resent their overlords; instead they aspire to join them. And yet most people cleave to their own kind – however such a thing is now defined. Woe to those who straddle multiple tribes.
Last edited by ohio_peasant; 03-29-2015 at 10:56 AM..
If someone can afford a $300k+ house, I would think they could easily afford "help."
It doesn't matter if their income is real or put-on (in my case I know it is real, because I know how they got their money through various conversations over several years) the fact is they are finding some way to spend more money than a person like me could or should, limiting my ability to engage in as many activities as them, weakening the ability to form a strong bond.
If I decide to live beyond my means to keep up with them, I still don't see how a true friendship could form as it would be built on lies, don't you think?
lol you'd be surprised. Some people who have very expensive houses or cars don't have any money and are deep in debt. Don't get me wrong. I live in MD and there ARE some people (esp where I live now...which is affluent) who are millionaires, have inherited tons of money etc. But not most. I get a paper with the foreclosures for my county every week. The numbers are still coming out. There are the majority in working-class areas, but some in affluent areas every. single. week.
Sadly it seems that the government is always trying to help or bail out these people who got themselves into a mess, but does nothing for those who save and live frugally AT ALL. We get to pay for their kids, their health care and their big expensive houses. In many cases, the house or car payment comes before saving money for the future.
There are also a lot of people who have big houses, but can't afford to furnish, or heat or maintain them. Or they can't afford to eat properly. I know people like this personally. Also they have made it possible now to take out long loans for cars etc...and I guess people are THAT greedy and materialistic.
But not to worry. As long as enough people live like this, and the evil bankers are in charge, the government will declare sort of "crisis" and find a way to take money away from "the rich" or people who were dumb enough to save money to pay for the non-saver's lifestyles. Because god forbid, housing prices should go down, and they should have fewer reasons to "consume." Maybe we are the dumb ones.
I don't understand how people live outside their means. Just the thought of mounting debt and increasing monthly bills and responsibility stesses me out!! If we can't buy something outright, we don't (except our house obviously). We saved up to buy a car, so we don't have a payment. Cheaper that way too. I only buy clothes when necessary and during the winter months when our utilities are lower. Nothing goes on a credit card. And, no we don't use any government assistance, cause I know some people were wondering or assuming we do.
I have enjoyed reading the respondes so far. My general consensus is that it is possible IF there is a big enough connection between the two people. I do think whether or not the relationship lasts relies more heavily on the wealthier person. They have to understand that the poorer person can not do the same things as them as often, be willing to do more low key things and be sensitive to the person's lifestyle. Not that they can't talk about their experiences and plans, but not ask things, "like how come you never go on vacation," or "why aren't your kids in this school with mine." One of those people I was friends with was always asking me those types of questions and having to constantly say "we can't afford it," gets embarrassing and can start to make you feel bad about your situation.
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