Baby born out of wedlock, different religions? (issues, partner, person)

[Kazurro]

Originally Posted by dblackga

Sorry, this line of logic always makes me chuckle . . . you have a BABY, for heaven's sake. If that isn't enough to "force" the issue, if providing a stable and loving home for your child isn't a priority, what the heck is? These things "shouldn't be forced"? Bwahaha! Looks to me as if it has already been "forced" to the ultimate degree. Not a "priority"? Apparently providing a loving famly for your child comes below . . . what? News flash: you are already tied to your GF for the rest of your lfe, through your son. Even if you break up, you will always be seeing her at school events, for holidays, birthdays, graduatons, weddings, etc., etc. for the rest of your life. So . . . what's the problem?

Again -- what your father thinks is on him. "Only" a civil marriage is still a marriage. Have a religious ceremony later, if you and she feel the need.

But my son already has a stable and loving home without marriage so I can't see your point...of course we'll have a bond for the rest of our lives, regardless of what we decide to do with our relationship. That's not even the question.

[hhwtm]

There are a large number of people from Middle Eastern countries where I live. Some are Muslim, some are Chaldean (Christian) or of another religion. To say that a Muslim would "never do XX" such as drinking, having sex out of marriage, etc. is to ignore the huge amount of diversity among people. An co-worker originally from Lebanon had 2 kids with an guy and they never got married. Broad generalizations don't hold up IMHO.

[cindersslipper]

Originally Posted by parentologist

HA HA HA. Read the NYT's magazine article, in which it is revealed that Anwar al Awlaki regularly paid for sex with prostitutes, even during the daytime during Ramadan! And of course he was married.


Virtually every Arab man I ever met was desperate to have sex, with any woman they could! Even as they professed to be religiously observant Muslims. Because in their society, they only get to be alone ever with their mother and sisters. There is NO dating. NO socializing. The women are kept at home, to control them. So the men are left to have sex with each other (high incidence of homosexual behavior - like men in prisons) or to pay a prostitute for sex, and boy do they ever! They certainly NEVER had any concern about a woman's "cleanliness". They just were desperate to have sex!

I should have made myself clearer.

OF COURSE they have sex with prostitutes! THAT is acceptable, even expected!

But

they DO NOT, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, have sex with a girl they want a relationship with, or to marry.

NEVER.

To do so is to degrade her, both families, the incredibly important religion.

Its not like a Chastity vow in the West.

These kids are literally watched like hawks while dating. You simply DO NOT fool around with a NICE GIRL outside marriage, the End. Your average muslim boy is happy with a boob flash on an iPhone, and hand holding = engaged.

This is not like alcohol, where even the best Muslim boys indulge after Prayers on Friday. This is absolutely woven into their entire being, their society....they are incredibly celibate, even the ones who push the limits feel this way.

This is likely why Dad has so much trouble (not that I think he exists) - he would have ordered his son home on news of the pregnancy...because the girl would be a Sinful W*ore unfit to bear his name.

There would BE no talking on the phone. Dad would be utterly unappeasable, and any son WOULD KNOW THAT and not come asking about it on a forum imo. Its something he literally cannot come back from in his dads eyes.

What would happen - son ordered home - never to be spoken of again ->> American B9stard and its mother.

But!! This is CD, and a miraculous place, where sons of Allah can impregnate American w"ores and be forgiven and welcomed, complete with breathing money sucking illegitimate mistakes, back into the Muslim fold!

[dblackga]

Originally Posted by Kazurro

But my son already has a stable and loving home without marriage so I can't see your point...of course we'll have a bond for the rest of our lives, regardless of what we decide to do with our relationship. That's not even the question.

Isn't it? Ha. Then why does the title of your original question start with "Baby born out of wedlock . . ."? You know, deep down, that all things being equal, it's better for a child to have a mother and a father who are in a relationship designed to give stability and security to a child as it grows. You had enough of a "relationship" with the mother to have sex and to have a baby, as well as cause what appears to be a permanent break in your relationship with your parents. Or perhaps you are one of those men who secretly feel that once a woman has given it up to you, then she is somehow less "worthy"?

Your father might have more respect for you if he felt you were acting in an adult and responsible manner instead of just screwing around and having babies willy-nilly without apparent thought for the long-term consequences. You, yourself, admitted that you had asked your GF to have an abortion. Your father may be harsh in his judgements, but at least he is consistent with his belief system -- I suspect his reaction did not come as much of a surprise to you. Your belief system seems to be along the lines of identifying as Muslim, but picking and choosing what parts you'll go along with, as long as it's not inconvenient. Sex? Babies? Alcohol? Abortions?

The question was basically "how do I get my father to accept my actions?" Short answer: You can't. It's too far off the grid of his own value system, and his disappointment in failing to instill those values in you feel like a personal failure on his part.

[ElizaTeal]

Originally Posted by Kazurro

Marriage is not in our plans for now and my father should have no influence over that decision. That's between my partner and I, no one else.



Perhaps one day, who knows. We've not discussed that topic and we wouldn't have more children for now anyway for obvious reasons. This is all very recent and things have to settle down a bit.

Too busy to get married? If you had a civil ceremony, you could exchange vows in less time than it took to impregnate your son's mother.

[CraigCreek]

Why are you so reluctant to legitimize your son, and to make his mother your wife? Your excuses come off as just that: excuses.

If you did get married, your father would be presented with a very different situation - one he would have a more difficult time rejecting, as marriage would represent commitment, seriousness, loyalty, and a desire to publicly declare yourself as husband and legal father.

How does the mother of your child feel about marriage? How does she feel about your father's attitude? We have not heard much about her. Where does her own family of origin come into this story? Are they around? Are they supportive? How do you get along with them, and how do they get along with you?

Also, it sounds to me as if you are living in the United Kingdom, not the United States. Is this the case?

[Tzaphkiel]

Originally Posted by Kazurro

But my son already has a stable and loving home without marriage so I can't see your point...of course we'll have a bond for the rest of our lives, regardless of what we decide to do with our relationship. That's not even the question.

if you are not married....it is not a stable relationship.
women know this, even if men do not

if you value your child and the mother of your child, then get married

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by Kazurro

Hello. I'm from Turkey but I went to study at university in Britain and ended up staying here. I found a good job right after graduating and I enjoy it here so I didn't go back to my country.

My parents are hard line Muslims and are very strict about the Islamic laws and customs. I'm a Muslim as well but not a fanatic. I follow certain traditions but others simply don't make sense. I drink alcohol when I go out at night and I've dated several women while I've been here.

Last year, I started a casual relationship with a woman. We would have a good time together but nothing serious. Still, after a while, she admitted she had feelings for me and I started to feel attached to her as well.

Long story short, we had such an intense relationship at first that we got a bit careless and she got pregnant. I panicked because I started to imagine how I would face my family. I pressured her to have an abortion, she went to the clinic but she couldn't do it. Then I realised I was being stupid because the baby was completely innocent in all of this.

She gave birth to a healthy baby boy and I assumed his paternity. We also resumed our relationship.

I went back to Turkey after he was born and finally told my parents. My father was completely mad and expelled me from his house. You could see the rage in his eyes. He said I was not his son anymore and that I disrespected all the effort he made working hard to pay for my studies abroad. He said I disgraced his surname. My mother tried to support me, started crying but at the end she has to stand for what he says. He's the authority there.

He cut off all contact with me. I tried to send him a picture of his grandson but my mother said he deleted it when he saw him because the baby was "mixed blood bastard". I can't believe he wouldn't show the slightest compassion for his own grandchild.

My mother has kept in touch with me and sends gifts for the baby in secret. She's very sad because she can't visit us.

I would like any advice you could have because I admired my father despite his temper and I know I couldn't have got to this position without his financial support. Still, I would expect some kind of understanding despite the religious differences.

You will like some of what I have to say, and you might not like other parts.

1. First, I believe you. I have known nominally Islamic people in the 18-35 year old age group, who think of themselves as Muslims, but do not follow everything that the religion demands.

There are also many degrees of religiosity, as their are in Judaism or Christianity.

I have known students, from Turkey in particular, who were sexually active and who drank socially. All were good students.

2. I have known the children of devout Christian and Jewish parents to do these same things. Fundamentalist Christian parents sometimes deny their children the right to an education in the US - because they are so afraid that they will become "worldly".

3. I feel sad you you, and for your mom. Mothers of any faith want to see their children, and grandchildren. I have known Fundamentalist Christians parents personally who think it is their right to select the spouse of their child.

This behavior is not unique to strict Islamic families.

It is what it is.

What should you do?

1. Try to see your mother as much as possible. She is in a terrible position right now.

2. Do not attempt to change your father. If he changes, it will be on HIS terms. Not yours.

3. Do the right thing. Marry the mother of your son. It is best for all concerned.

[thinkalot]

The girlfriend is nuts if she lets him take the kid to Turkey.

[cindersslipper]

Originally Posted by ElizaTeal

Too busy to get married? If you had a civil ceremony, you could exchange vows in less time than it took to impregnate your son's mother.

Or not....