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Interesting topic. My spouse is also from a developing country and we visit relatives there a lot.
I have also observed that both the social and family dynamic are MUCH more unstructured and fluid. There's a large family (7 siblings) and they all live in the same city, or neighboring cities. There's no such thing as planning a social interaction, family members simply drop by to and from work/school/activities as they like. We stay at the parent's home (aka family home) which is sort of a central meeting place. Throughout the day people will drop in with their kids, maybe bring us some food they cooked or bought somewhere. No formality, fancy packaging, etc.
Also, while kids are seen as integral part of the family dynamic, the culture is not stiflingly child centric like in the US - nieces and nephews are brought along and mostly run around the house and entertain themselves. They have their own functions and activities for sure, but every day is not structured around their schedule. Mostly they are just allowed to play as they see fit when not in school. While safety is a concern still, they are not as heavily supervised like here in the US, or don't wear seatbelts/carseats in the car, etc. which would probably horrify many an American parent. Adult friendships revolve around similar interests that the adults have, not based on proximity or their child's activities (which seems more common in America).
It's really an interesting dynamic, and I'd encourage everyone to get out and travel if you can. It's enjoyable to see how things are done in other parts of the world, compare and contrast etc.
That's very well put. The lives are centered around the activities of the children. In our countries, the children tag along and deal with it. And somehow, children seem to be more loyal when they grow up...
What % of Americans work more than 8-5? I work in finance and work 12 hour days. I literally have never been in the office less than 12 hours in more than a decade. I have never not had time to hang out. The "work so many hours" excuse is crap. It is just laziness.
Even if you work 8-5, that doesn't leave much time in the day to hang out, especially if you have small children to care for, errands to run, dogs to walk, chores to do, dinner to cook and a commute that includes sitting in highway traffic. For pretty much everyone I know, weekdays are totally out as far as getting together with friends. I don't think it's so much laziness as it is people are tired.
This is not an American bashing thread. I love America. This is just a commentary on things I have noticed and I am curious to discuss.
I am originally from a developing nation. My wife was born in America but has roots in another developing nation. We often visit both places. The thing that always jumps out most at me is how different the human interactions are from America. And for the better.
Frankly, I think that the American social culture is terrible. Friendships appear to be pretty disposable. Social interactions seem to be regimented, with things needing to be scheduled weeks in advance. Once you are over 25, there seems to be no spontaneity left. Everything needs to be planned - drinks on Thursday with Bob. Dinner on Saturday with Jane and Ray. And the three shall never meet.
The chances of me texting somebody and them agreeing on a short notice to meet up are slim. They will always have something to do. I need to get on their schedule for next weekend.
Nobody drops by. Even your closest friends. Jamal doesn’t stop on the way back from work to chat about politics and have a beer. The visit has to be coordinated days ahead.
Even the fun is coordinated and scripted. We will go to Place A and do Y and X. After that we will go to Place B and do Z.
There is very little spontaneity and just being with. In our countries you constantly see people just being with - sitting on a bench in the park, sitting at a cafe, walking by the river-front. You see that in America but it is different.
It is hard to describe if you haven’t experienced it. The walk is purposeful. You will meet and walk along the river. You dont just organically end there after pointlessly meandering lost in conversation.
You belong to a jogging group. You go hiking. You plan to get wasted next weekend. You travel. The friendship is focused on activities versus just being with and enjoying each other’s company.
You do these things in our countries, too. But they are secondary. The come after being with. They are the cherry on top. Not the only things you do as friends.
In addition, it is amazing to me how disposable friendships are. Part of it is the mobility of Americans. I get that. In most countries people are not as mobile, but here we move states so easily.
But just look at other reasons why people stop hanging out
- they start dating somebody
- they get new friends
- they move to a suburb
- they have kids
- they join some social group
All of these are absurd to me. Just thinking to my friends in my country - they are still hanging out after 20 years. New girlfriends are welcomed. Kids sit in a stroller while parents are sitting in a cafe. Or play unsupervised at the near playground without a parent with outstretched arms by them every time they climb up a yard.
Friends mingle. There is no such thing as work friends, church friends, soccer friends. If you are fun, you are invited to all types of functions. Here people have completely separate groups of friends that literally might never meet. That’s insane to me. How can people who are close to you never meet?
Anyway, it is just some observations. I know they are anecdotal, but I feel pretty comfortable generalizing based on them. I am very good at reading people and I have spent a lot of time reading, researching and observing American society. I think that our social interactions culture is terrible.
Breaking into existing friends groups is almost impossible. Friendships are disposable. If you move after 40, your only chance of a meaningful relationship is joining a meetup with other “lonely losers” like yourself. Your coworker is unlikely you to invite you to a BBQ. And if they do, their friends are highly unlikely to ask for your number and stay in touch unless you literally bend over backwards over several months. So you join a meetup.
Just so strange.
I'm sure this is not the case or as extreme in all parts of the country. You probably haven't lived in every state, every metro, or small towns and cities. In many parts of the country, life moves at a snails pace, and life styles can vary a great deal from region to region. Not to mention all the many subcultures within the country. You probably have live in large metros, in a few places in one part of the country. It's not exactly the same everywhere.
What % of Americans work more than 9-5? I work in finance and work 12 hour days. I literally have never been in the office less than 12 hours in more than a decade. I have never not had time to hang out. The "work so many hours" excuse is crap. It is just laziness or because people are stuck in 2 hour commutes.
huh? I don't get it. You just proved my point. I have never worked 12 hours on any day in my life. I am betting almost none of my German friends ever worked more than 9 hours/day.
A lot of Americans either have two jobs or work more than 8 hours/day and maybe commute very long. Then they pick up their kids somewhere and provide dinner. Often times eat out. That leaves little time left.
You never NOT have time to hang out? 12 hours work plus commuting plus 9 hours sleep (for most), that leaves just 2 hours/day where you have time to do whatever. Most likely running errands and eating dinner, picking up kids from wherever.
There really is no need to insult me and call my statement crap. Chill out, dude.
huh? I don't get it. You just proved my point. I have never worked 12 hours on any day in my life. I am betting almost none of my German friends ever worked more than 9 hours/day.
A lot of Americans either have two jobs or work more than 8 hours/day and maybe commute very long. Then they pick up their kids somewhere and provide dinner. Often times eat out. That leaves little time left.
You never NOT have time to hang out? 12 hours work plus commuting plus 9 hours sleep (for most), that leaves just 2 hours/day where you have time to do whatever. Most likely running errands and eating dinner, picking up kids from wherever.
There really is no need to insult me and call my statement crap. Chill out, dude.
No, my point is that I work 12 hours and I am the exception. no, most Americans don't have 2 jobs. Most Americans work 9-5, like the majority of the developed world. My friends in my home country don't hang out from 4-6 or 3-5. they hang out from 6-8 or 7-9. Americans prefer to stay at home and watch TV.
And I didn't insult you or your statement. i said that the excuse "I am busy" is crap.
Interesting topic. My spouse is also from a developing country and we visit relatives there a lot.
I have also observed that both the social and family dynamic are MUCH more unstructured and fluid. There's a large family (7 siblings) and they all live in the same city, or neighboring cities. There's no such thing as planning a social interaction, family members simply drop by to and from work/school/activities as they like. We stay at the parent's home (aka family home) which is sort of a central meeting place. Throughout the day people will drop in with their kids, maybe bring us some food they cooked or bought somewhere. No formality, fancy packaging, etc.
Also, while kids are seen as integral part of the family dynamic, the culture is not stiflingly child centric like in the US - nieces and nephews are brought along and mostly run around the house and entertain themselves. They have their own functions and activities for sure, but every day is not structured around their schedule. Mostly they are just allowed to play as they see fit when not in school. While safety is a concern still, they are not as heavily supervised like here in the US, or don't wear seatbelts/carseats in the car, etc. which would probably horrify many an American parent. Adult friendships revolve around similar interests that the adults have, not based on proximity or their child's activities (which seems more common in America).
It's really an interesting dynamic, and I'd encourage everyone to get out and travel if you can. It's enjoyable to see how things are done in other parts of the world, compare and contrast etc.
How can everyone just drop by during work/school/activities - are the adults not working?
Your scenario sounds common for countries where mothers don't work full time or not at all.
In the US, women work full time usually, there is no one home during the week after school. If you would drop by, no one would be home before it is quite late.
Maybe so, but if you don't follow with the church's belief system, being involved with all of those supplementary activities is fraudulent. You can volunteer without the religious overhead.
In those communities where churches anchor the social-life, it becomes difficult and even intractable to find rooting other than under the auspices of the churches. Also, there is a kind of competition between churches, leading to a factionalism and rivalry. But this is probably a topic for another forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyinCali
That's very well put. The lives are centered around the activities of the children. In our countries, the children tag along and deal with it. And somehow, children seem to be more loyal when they grow up...
Also perhaps a topic for another forum, but I wonder why American society has evolved in recent decades to be so centralized around the activities of children, and wherein so many aspects of culture and civic life - movies, car-safety, restaurant menus and so forth - are designed around child-rearing. To reiterate, most people in most societies do go on to have children. Being "child-free" is rare, whether in America, or elsewhere. But elsewhere, the assumption is that children largely mind themselves, or are tended perhaps by the grandparents. In America, the lives of adults are paced and regimented by their function as parents.
Well in Australia at least there is quite a social class difference in the way leisure time is used. All the activities which kids do to a schedule cost money and usually require transport. I remember teaching a casual day in a working class migrant area and asking the kids what was planned for their weekend. They related that they may play with a ball outside their apartment block. In my usual school, in a middle class area,the kids went from swimming lessons to gym, from birthday parties to family parties. They were frequently exhausted on Mondays.
How can everyone just drop by during work/school/activities - are the adults not working?
Your scenario sounds common for countries where mothers don't work full time or not at all.
In the US, women work full time usually, there is no one home during the week after school. If you would drop by, no one would be home before it is quite late.
I'm curious about that as well. In what magical universe do adults have all this free time to flit about from house to house?
Even here in the U.S., if a woman is a SAHM, her children are in after-school activities, so there'd still be no one home until well into the evening.
I would add only that this is a relatively late development in America; an old but good read on the subject is "Bowling Alone," about the decline of civic and social interaction in recent decades. It didn't used to be this way. I blame our relative wealth, superficial (material) values, decline in religion and spiritual values, and modern technology.
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