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where is your outrage at the fact that previous Democratic state govt gerrymandering of Wake County (a county that gave Mitt Romney over 44% of its vote, while giving Obama under 55% of its vote . . . there is clearly a strong GOP presence in Wake County. Source: http://www.politico.com/2012-electio...orth-carolina/) led to the election of ZERO Republicans to the county board during the last election? Your selective, hyper-partisan outrage here is nauseating. You write about a comparable gerrymandering, but it seems like Democrats are the extreme, at least in Wake County, where prior Democrat Redistricting led to the GOP completely being shut out of county government, despite comprising close to half of all voters.
Because as you yourself, pointed out, Wake county AS A WHOLE is Democratic, and County Commissioner elections are done at the county level, not district--so it does not MATTER how "gerrymandered" they are, since the whole county votes on them--the same county that went 44-55 Romney-Obama.
Hmm. in response to the comment that "Unless the courts do something about this they'll slowly take over all levels of government in the state, replacing democracy at every turn with permanent unaccountable majorities" you write this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty
For close to 100 years the Democrats completely controlled most of the government in NC. During this time they highly gerrymandered the state's voting districts. Yet Democracy didn't fail and that unaccountable majority was held to account and voted out of power over the last 6 years.
Golly gee willikers, sure sounds like you were saying for close to 100 years Democrats had an unaccountable majority elected by a minority of voters.
Then we have this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
Elections have consequences. Democrats gerrymandered the hell out of NC for well over a century without much complaint. Now that the GOP is in charge (and only recently so . . . as in the last 5 years they have control of the NC Legislature for the first time since Reconstruction ended!) people want to make a fuss? Give me a break.
Sounds like at least two people "said that", including yourself.
Hmm. in response to the comment that "Unless the courts do something about this they'll slowly take over all levels of government in the state, replacing democracy at every turn with permanent unaccountable majorities" you write this. Golly gee willikers, sure sounds like you were saying for close to 100 years Democrats had an unaccountable majority elected by a minority of voters. Then we have this: Sounds like at least two people "said that", including yourself.
Nope.
You said.....
"...who seem to think that Democrats rule in the state was the result of gerrymandering"
I said (which you quoted)
..."the Democrats completely controlled most of the government in NC. During this time they highly gerrymandered the state's voting districts."
These are two totally different statements. I did not say the Democrats rule was the result of gerrymandering. In fact, I've clearly said in this topic that Democrats and Republicans are elected because people feel they represent their interests. This is why the Republicans took over even though they were elected from districts gerrymandered by Democrats.
"...who seem to think that Democrats rule in the state was the result of gerrymandering"
I said (which you quoted)
..."the Democrats completely controlled most of the government in NC. During this time they highly gerrymandered the state's voting districts."
These are two totally different statements. I did not say the Democrats rule was the result of gerrymandering. In fact, I've clearly said in this topic that Democrats and Republicans are elected because people feel they represent their interests. This is why the Republicans took over even though they were elected from districts gerrymandered by Democrats.
Cute. You left out the parts where you said "Yet Democracy didn't fail and that unaccountable majority was held to account".
You made a reply to a post on the use of gerrymandering to allow a minority of voters to elect a majority of members in government. You know, an "unaccountable majority". Your response to this is the Democrats were in control for 100 years, highly gerrymandered the state voting districts and had an "unaccountable majority". Feel free to skitter away from your statement, but your meaning is clear.
Certainly at the congressional level, there's a big difference in past democratic gerrymandering and present republican. For the democrats to hold a majority (7 of 13) seats, they will need to get nearly 60% of the vote. A similar landslide will be necessary just to break even in the state house and senate. That is an "unaccountable majority", much like the one proposed for the Wake County Board of commissioners.
And again, that was not the case following previous redistrictings by democrats...indeed, the republicans took the majority of seats in 94, 02 and 04, despite what you describe as "highly gerrymandered" districts.
^But US Congressional Districts are not the subject of this topic. Instead it's about districting NC offices and my commentary is about that. I suggest that you read the OP. Maybe that will clear it up for you.
^But US Congressional Districts are not the subject of this topic. Instead it's about districting NC offices and my commentary is about that. I suggest that you read the OP. Maybe that will clear it up for you.
I'm well aware of the OP. You are the one making assertions with no evidence. You contend the Democrats created "highly gerrymandered districts" that led to "unaccountable majorities". You contend the actions of the Dems over 100 years were the same thing the Republicans are now. I contend that is not the case, and I've offered direct evidence whatever gerrymandering the Dems did at the federal level had a far different effect than what the republicans did in 2010.
Do you have any evidence or "highly gerrymandered districts" that led to "unaccountable majorities" at the state level? You can either back up your assertions with some evidence, or admit they are just your own unsubstantiated opinion, that has some significant evidence to the contrary.
Because as you yourself, pointed out, Wake county AS A WHOLE is Democratic, and County Commissioner elections are done at the county level, not district--so it does not MATTER how "gerrymandered" they are, since the whole county votes on them--the same county that went 44-55 Romney-Obama.
From the article: "The county commissioner elections are by district. But every voter in the county votes in every district, meaning the most likely outcome is a sweep by one party or the other."
Note, even with this setup, there is generally enough cross-over voting or other voting patterns to ensure that the GOP is at least represented on the board in the past (based on past election results, my guess is that voters generally aren't voting for candidates outside of their districts). But not so this time around. And it wouldn't shock me if this is the case (and has been the case in the past) due to partisan gerrymandering by a Democratic legislature.
Last edited by prospectheightsresident; 04-13-2015 at 11:02 AM..
From the article: "The county commissioner elections are by district. But every voter in the county votes in every district, meaning the most likely outcome is a sweep by one party or the other."
Note, even with this setup, there is generally enough cross-over voting or other voting patterns to ensure that the GOP is at least represented on the board in the past (based on past election results, my guess is that voters generally aren't voting for candidates outside of their districts). But not so this time around. And it wouldn't shock me if this is the case (and has been the case in the past) due to partisan gerrymandering by a Democratic legislature.
What you posted is a little misleading, but while they REPRESENT every district, the VOTING (which is what is affected by gerrymandering) is done by everyone in the county, e.g. it doesn't matter what district you live in, you still get a vote for everyone who's running. NO amount of gerrymandering in the world would change the outcome when that is the case, because the Wake County voters (who are majority Democratic) all vote in every county Commissioner election. No manner of redrawing districts will change anything as long as the election is done the same way.
The real issue is that the Republicans, who were A-OK with the "everyone in the county votes for all" setup when they were winning, now suddenly have a beef with it when they lose, and are changing to a district-wide vote IN ADDITION to gerrymandering new districts specifically to favor Republicans. The redistricting wouldn't have mattered without also changing the voting method, something they never saw fit to do when it favored them. They can claim any excuse they want, but it's a clear example of changing the rules once they realized they can't win by the rules that were already in place.
Why does the STATE government have a say over how one county's elections are held, anyway? The GOP is supposed to represent small/local government control, and this takes control away from Wake and gives it to every other county.
I'm well aware of the OP. You are the one making assertions with no evidence. You contend the Democrats created "highly gerrymandered districts" that led to "unaccountable majorities". You contend the actions of the Dems over 100 years were the same thing the Republicans are now. I contend that is not the case, and I've offered direct evidence whatever gerrymandering the Dems did at the federal level had a far different effect than what the republicans did in 2010. .
I already gave examples and furthermore, you absolutely didn't get the context of what I was responding to.
If you are going to have a debate, at least try to respond to what was written in context.
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