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I agree, TWC being downtown with surrounding amenities helps but as a standalone facility neither PNC or TWC offers an array of venues in addition to a museum. It is the premiere events complex in the state. For Greensboro folks use? I still don't think you grasp the magnitude of that complex.
I know you know that the way TWC is set-up is actually BETTER than the way Greensboro Coliseum is set-up. You wouldn't want TWC to be a bigger venue, it encourages all of these separate facilities that encourage all of the other businesses. Its just basic economics.
Greensboro is doing what it can to keep the Coliseum viable...I hope they do continue with redevelopment efforts that have a broader effect on Greensboro. Continued links with the Koury area are necessary and continued re-development of that area needs to happen as well.
My concern for the whole Greensboro thing is I'm not sure if the demographics are there to support it AND it is going to take a lot of private redevelopment $$$ to make it a higher end destination area. Durham does seem to be getting that private side of re-development and it may be due to its proximity to RTP and the fact that downtown Raleigh is what it is.
I have made the argument for Wilmington going forward because it has both a riverfront element and a Historic element beyond that of any other major NC city. It will be interesting to see what things look like in terms of numbers after the next census. These next 3 and a half years are going to see massive changes in many of the largest cities downtown area's (pay attention to what is happening in Greenville) that will continue to re-shape the landscape of NC cities and their standing and influence in the overall NC economy.
I know you know that the way TWC is set-up is actually BETTER than the way Greensboro Coliseum is set-up. You wouldn't want TWC to be a bigger venue, it encourages all of these separate facilities that encourage all of the other businesses. Its just basic economics.
Greensboro is doing what it can to keep the Coliseum viable...I hope they do continue with redevelopment efforts that have a broader effect on Greensboro. Continued links with the Koury area are necessary and continued re-development of that area needs to happen as well.
My concern for the whole Greensboro thing is I'm not sure if the demographics are there to support it AND it is going to take a lot of private redevelopment $$$ to make it a higher end destination area. Durham does seem to be getting that private side of re-development and it may be due to its proximity to RTP and the fact that downtown Raleigh is what it is.
I have made the argument for Wilmington going forward because it has both a riverfront element and a Historic element beyond that of any other major NC city. It will be interesting to see what things look like in terms of numbers after the next census. These next 3 and a half years are going to see massive changes in many of the largest cities downtown area's (pay attention to what is happening in Greenville) that will continue to re-shape the landscape of NC cities and their standing and influence in the overall NC economy.
The Coliseum and Koury don't rely on the local population though; they host events that draw visitors from all over. For instance, my church denomination, which doesn't have a large presence in Greensboro, has had its annual meeting, averaging upwards of 10K delegates, in Greensboro every other year for the past 8 years or so and a few other times before that.
The Coliseum and Koury don't rely on the local population though; they host events that draw visitors from all over. For instance, my church denomination, which doesn't have a large presence in Greensboro, has had its annual meeting, averaging upwards of 10K delegates, in Greensboro every other year for the past 8 years or so and a few other times before that.
I know, I've been there for many events. But it's really more of a middle class destination point...in a middle class city. There is a market for that, but many conventions/events are targeted at higher class clientel. Greensboro is a more affordable option (church groups are a perfect example) than some of other spots in NC and its central location lends itself to having a market share.
My point was that the smaller events at the complex are more geared to locals, of which there is significant enough population to support.
I know, I've been there for many events. But it's really more of a middle class destination point...in a middle class city. There is a market for that, but many conventions/events are targeted at higher class clientel. Greensboro is a more affordable option (church groups are a perfect example) than some of other spots in NC and its central location lends itself to having a market share.
"Middle class events" constitute a pretty large share of events though. There really aren't that many conventions/events targeted at a "higher class clientele" exclusively, and the ones that do are typically smaller in nature due to their exclusivity anyway.
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My point was that the smaller events at the complex are more geared to locals, of which there is significant enough population to support.
There are lots of smaller events for statewide conferences, sports events, etc. I'd say most of the smaller events more geared to locals would be concerts.
Population is a small part of a city's image and prestige. Durham can eclipse Greensboro in population, but it'll take more than that to shake old perceptions.
For example: San Bernardino CA is over 200K population and Huntington Beach right close to that number. And they're about as far apart from each other as Durham is from Greensboro. But in terms of each one's amenities and air quality vs the other, they're leagues apart. Nobody's going to knock HB just because it's smaller.
Fresno is California's fifth largest city. But it doesn't really punch at that level in terms of perception. Most Californians would compare it with Bakersfield which is at #9.
Population and growth are huge components lol.
Stop lying to yourself love.
Durham will surpass Greensboro to become the third largest city in NC.
So your argument is that an arena alone makes this an open and shut case? There are no other factors to consider? ... Like jobs, growth, education, national recognition, sports, arts, etc.???
You keep claiming that Greensboro is the clear choice b/c of the arena and other cities have nothing like it. Does Greensboro have a top ten university? Is Greensboro considered one of the most educated places in the country? Does Greensboro have the most recognizable minor league baseball team in the country? Does Greensboro have a downtown innovation district like Winston-Salem and Durham? Is Greensboro growing twice as fast as Durham or the other way around? Does Greensboro have Moogfest? American Dance Festival? World Beer Festival? Does it have one of the top three most attended performance arts centers in the country?
Everyone has their right to their opinion and opinions can differ but for you to say this isn't even a debate is absurd. And to say the arena alone is the lone factor is also absurd.
Greensboro has more universities (and students) than Durham or Winston and the largest HBCU. A&T is #1 producer of Black Engineers in the United States. Greensboro has more urban nodes, areas, parks, highway infrastructure.
Greensboro also hosts the Eastern Music Festival, National Folk Festival(https://nationalfolkfestival.com/),etc....Greensboro has plenty of festivals, etc. The John Coltrane (from High Point) International Jazz and Blues Festival is at City Lake in High Point.
Greensboro building a performance arts center larger than Durhams, just opened the Tangier Park, home tot the International Civil Rights Museum (Sit-ins starting in Gboro). It also has the Greensboro Cultural Arts Center, etc....It does not lack in anything Durham or Winston has....it generally has more. Then add in the Complex...you have the 3rd city and will be for the foreseeable future regardless of population.
I lived in Durham for 10 years, there almost monthly. Greenboro is th 3rd city of the state and with a growth spurt, could give Raleigh a run for stature.
I'm not arguing with you. You're delusional. Several of the things you mentioned are in High Point. The colleges you mentioned do not bring the research jobs and talent to the area. You can build a performing arts Center but it doesn't mean its going to be top three in attendance.
Greensboro has more universities (and students) than Durham or Winston and the largest HBCU. A&T is #1 producer of Black Engineers in the United States. Greensboro has more urban nodes, areas, parks, highway infrastructure.
Greensboro also hosts the Eastern Music Festival, National Folk Festival(https://nationalfolkfestival.com/),etc....Greensboro has plenty of festivals, etc. The John Coltrane (from High Point) International Jazz and Blues Festival is at City Lake in High Point.
Greensboro building a performance arts center larger than Durhams, just opened the Tangier Park, home tot the International Civil Rights Museum (Sit-ins starting in Gboro). It also has the Greensboro Cultural Arts Center, etc....It does not lack in anything Durham or Winston has....it generally has more. Then add in the Complex...you have the 3rd city and will be for the foreseeable future regardless of population.
I lived in Durham for 10 years, there almost monthly. Greenboro is th 3rd city of the state and with a growth spurt, could give Raleigh a run for stature.
Quick answer. Duke NCCU,enough said!
Secondly Greensboro give Raleigh a run in what? That'd be some growth spurt. Not to mention Raleigh would have to crash and just stop growing.
I actually agree that Greensboro is NC's 3rd city. How long that lasts is another matter. One problem that Durham had is it will always be second to Raleigh. Greensboro is clearly King of the Triad.
Greenboro is th 3rd city of the state and with a growth spurt, could give Raleigh a run for stature.
Doubtful; a Greensboro growth spurt isn't going to stunt Raleigh's rapid growth. The gap only gets bigger with time and I don't see that changing in the foreseeable future.
I think it will really be interesting to see the actual growth numbers after the next census now that NC has changed its involuntary annexation laws around 2010.
There were a lot of population increases that were really land grabs by municipalities. Now its all voluntary and I think we will see what Cities are actually growing inside their limits.
Just throwing a few numbers out there, here are the estimates from 2010 to 2015 in terms of percentage growth...
Fayetteville 0.7%
Winston Salem 5.1%
High Point 5.7%
Greensboro 5.8%
Asheville 6.1%
Greenville 7.1%
Wilmington 8.9%
Raleigh 11.7%
Durham 12.8%
Charlotte 13.1%
Cary 18.1%
Personally I think this is close, but that those (bottom 6) high growth communities will accelerate even more before 2020. And to agree with Mutiny...it is statistically impossible for Greensboro to give Raleigh a run. Raleigh is growing twice as fast as Greensboro.
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