North Carolina development thread. (Charlotte, Raleigh: flooding, commercial, terminal)
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Very hard choice between downtown & North Hills. I chose NorthHills because it seems like more action for the weekend. I’ll visit downtown Raleigh while my friend who now lives in CLT visits his mom who still lives in Raleigh.
For someone who generally prefers downtown to suburb, pretty surprised my feeling is telling me North Hills. I don’t like Buckhead or Arlington VA.... but North Hills seems like a nice happening place.
I’ll be honest and say I feel like downtown Raleigh will be boring on the weekend (which a lot of cities can be) but I have a feeling my expectations will be exceeded.
I was going to bring that up but I actually think Charlotte485 was talking about next weekend.
Right. Eh. Live & Learn about which will have been a better choice. I'll be going to downtown when my friend is with his mom anyway. So, we'll see if I regret it.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte485
Visiting Raleigh next weekend.
Very hard choice between downtown & North Hills. I chose NorthHills because it seems like more action for the weekend. I’ll visit downtown Raleigh while my friend who now lives in CLT visits his mom who still lives in Raleigh.
For someone who generally prefers downtown to suburb, pretty surprised my feeling is telling me North Hills. I don’t like Buckhead or Arlington VA.... but North Hills seems like a nice happening place.
I’ll be honest and say I feel like downtown Raleigh will be boring on the weekend (which a lot of cities can be) but I have a feeling my expectations will be exceeded.
If you generally prefer downtown to suburbs and you don't like Arlington, then I can't imagine why North Hills would appeal to you. Arlington is much more urban and dense than North Hills and functions as a city. North Hills is a mixed used development of shopping and entertainment. But you never know what will "click" with a person. Please keep us posted after you visit.
Right. Eh. Live & Learn about which will have been a better choice. I'll be going to downtown when my friend is with his mom anyway. So, we'll see if I regret it.
Well hope you enjoy your stay. When downtown I would advise really exploring throughout the entirety of it. Some assume the cluster around Fayetteville St is all there is.
So let me get this straight... You're basically holding to the fact that office towers such as the Edison for example, have sit as a meer rendering for years, not because there aren't anchors to fill it but because the city is making it too hard to build on one lot back from the main street in downtown? That big corporations have been trying to move downtown but the zoning makes it too long of a process so therefore they look elsewhere? The city council may need some changing but it seems you are almost implying they are purposely handicapping the cities growth and economy which is quite frankly ridiculous. A developer never bothered to tell them "hey guys we have multiple huge companies that want to come here and build skyscrapers but your zoning is scaring them off." Sounds like a lot of hoopla to me.
You make it sound like it is my own conclusion, which is why you are having troubles understanding the problem. My one-to-one talks with developers - and not only - go back to the 90's; a different set of issues back then. At this point, the new UDO makes it easier and quicker for developers to build within the city's guidelines (makes sense), but there are fine details when you go above 20 floors, even if the zoning allows taller buildings. So, if you are a developer who is in talks with various tenants - timelines for moving to Downtown, or relocating to a new building may vary, or not being set in stone - you also need to keep in mind that other developers are doing the same thing. For example, every developer salivates over the Advance Auto Parts HQ, and not all of them are Downtown developers. Does AAP care about a logo in the skyline? Maybe not, so they can go anywhere. If you lose AAP the choices may not be as many, but you have to talk to several potential tenants. Without having finalized the building's specs and secured financing, a developer could easily lose those tenants. I am sorry, but you will not hear all the names in the N&O or TBJ. I happen to be a bit lucky to maintain relationships that feed me with useful updates, but not everything is announced until the last second. I am only passing to you the information as the end result and not the specifics; I don't have all the facts, anyway.
With regards to the "Edison", the renderings have gone through different versions. The one that was shown in Highwoods' website is not going to be the final design, unfortunately. The most recent one I have seen doesn't include the podium, but in my opinion it is not a better design. Maybe when seen from a different angle it will look better. Anyway, Highwoods has been going back and forth, tweaking the design, for a while now. A company like that cannot spend too much time on one proposal, when their life is much easier in other markets. On the other hand, Downtown Raleigh cannot afford to lose such a company. I am also concerned about Highwoods losing interest in Downtown when it comes to charitable contributions and sponsoring. I am not suggesting that we should bend over backwards if a project is below standards, but there are local developers who want to become more active in the community and some kind of non-monetary incentive may help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trent Y
Its not a limit. Its a soft cap and no one has been denied rezoning. I don't care how many developers are buddies of yours that give you all the insider info. The demand to build all the stuff previously proposed doesn't vanish because of soft cap zoning. The time and money it takes to go through the rezoning process would pale in comparison to the money developers would be leaving on the table by settling for a 20 story building vs a 40 story one.... If the demand was truly there.
Out of curiosity, how much time would you consider unacceptable for a developer to wait for rezoning approval? Would you say 6 months? 12 months? Then again, who said anything about 40 floors? Sometimes, the difference may be an additional 5 floors. As a developer, you will try to maximize the size of the floor plate, which may force you to break other rules once you go above a certain height, making the city demand setbacks. Back to the drawing board, only to get another no. Back to the drawing board, once more. In the meantime, a competitor can offer your potential tenant a sweet deal somewhere in a nice office building in North Hills, or on Hillsborough Str. Does this sound like fiction to you? Well, it's not. It is a very real scenario and the maximum allowed height has nothing to do with it. There are other fine details associated with building over certain heights - 20 floors seems to be our own - which drive some developers crazy. They will either have to go much higher, building on speculation, or go shorter and try to maximize their investment, which may not provide the developer with the projected profits they need to show so they can get the loan.
Now, if you still think that I imply that the height limit alone is the problem, then think again. The height limit is part of a general attitude that the city thinks is appropriate. To his credit, council man Stephenson has recommended that the height limits (as measured in feet) are removed completely and only leave the floor count. This would definitely help avoid the flat and boxy skyline effect. Also, council man David Cox has put a web page out there, where he explains the challenge of heights and encourages people to provide some input. Here it is if you are interested:
Neither Russ, nor David, is interested in skylines and skyscrapers, but they seem to be making an effort to remove some unnecessary obstacle and help our skyline look less flat and less boxy. Let developers get creative with their designs and offer the visibility that their tenants may desire.
Southend looking to uptown Charlotte
Photo from Charlotte Agenda
Last edited by CLT1985; 04-05-2019 at 09:39 AM..
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