Potomac river (vs, authority, suburbs)

[ChristineVA]

I don't consider Northern VA to be "southern" at all.

I think when you get down to Richmond, it starts seeming more like the South, but not like the deep south.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by waydownsouth

Hello, I live in NC along the SC border. I've heard a lot of Virginian's consider themselves southerners. Some people say the potomac is what divides the south from the midatlantic. What do y'all think.

Historically, that is correct. Penn was northern, Maryland was a "border state" and Virginia was southern. anyone looking at the political history of Virginia from 1865 to the late 1960s (when "massive resistance" finally failed), would need to understand Va's southern background to make sense of it.

However since the 1930s or so, parts of northern virginia have gradually been absorbed into the greater Washington metro area. I think its fair to say that the entire metro area is "mid Atlantic" both because of its historic relationship to Maryland, and because as national capital, DC has drawn both northern and southern influences (and non - Maryland border state influences - for example the local bluegrass music scene, which originated with Kentucky migrants during WW2) The edge between the areas within the DC metro area and "the rest of Virginia" keeps changing, and is somewhat fuzzy.

In addition, there are some folks who would say that NoVa feels a bit more southern than the Md parst of metro DC. As not everyone agrees on 'what feels southern' or on the extent of actual differences between NoVa and the DC suburbs in MD, thats one we often disagree about. Suffice it to say, any "southernness" in NoVa is pretty subtle. Much of what seems like southernness to yankee transplants here (I mean folk from new england or NY or the upper midwest) is really just their misreading of the MidAtlantic character of the region.

[CAVA1990]

DC changed from Southern about the same time NoVA did. Remember it was also segregated until the 60s.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by CAVA1990

DC changed from Southern about the same time NoVA did. Remember it was also segregated until the 60s.

DC dropped school segregation before Brown V Bd IIUC. Even before Maryland did. The presence of official segregation is a very imperfect marker of southernness, as it was widespread in the border states (including Maryland). Anyway, by 1950 Arlington and Alexandria were pretty definitely culturally within the metro area, and Fairfax was partly there.

I think its pretty clear that DC was mixed yankee/southern (and hence "middle atlantic" in my usage) for generations before the civil rights movement (though the New Deal certainly impacted the relative balance). The change in DC with the inflow of northerners during the New Deal (counterbalanced, to some degree, by other inflows during WW2) is far from as dramatic as the transition each NoVa jurisdiction had as it entered the commutershed.

[yankee.peddler]

I think there are two "boundaries" to speak of here: the urban boundary and the rural boundary.

I think the urban boundary between Mid-Atlantic (or North) and South is located somewhere along the I-95 corridor between Richmond and D.C. Of course, it's not a line; rather, it's a nebulous region where "Southern" moves from minority to majority as one travels south.

With that said, I think the rural boundary between North and South remains the Mason-Dixon Line. There are areas of rural Maryland, rural northern Virginia, and even southern Delaware that are distinctly more Southern than Northern.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by yankee.peddler

I think there are two "boundaries" to speak of here: the urban boundary and the rural boundary.

I think the urban boundary between Mid-Atlantic (or North) and South is located somewhere along the I-95 corridor between Richmond and D.C. Of course, it's not a line; rather, it's a nebulous region where "Southern" moves from minority to majority as one travels south.

With that said, I think the rural boundary between North and South remains the Mason-Dixon Line. There are areas of rural Maryland, rural northern Virginia, and even southern Delaware that are distinctly more Southern than Northern.

I agree.

[statecollege]

Originally Posted by yankee.peddler

I think there are two "boundaries" to speak of here: the urban boundary and the rural boundary.

I think the urban boundary between Mid-Atlantic (or North) and South is located somewhere along the I-95 corridor between Richmond and D.C. Of course, it's not a line; rather, it's a nebulous region where "Southern" moves from minority to majority as one travels south.

With that said, I think the rural boundary between North and South remains the Mason-Dixon Line. There are areas of rural Maryland, rural northern Virginia, and even southern Delaware that are distinctly more Southern than Northern.

This is one of the better definitions I've seen. For me the distinctions are cultural. The "North" dips down along the urbanized East Coast to somewhere around Fredericksburg. On the other hand, the Southern-like aspects of Appalachia (roughly the "rural" of the poster) include a geographic lobe that reaches at least as far north as the M-D line and, I believe, into PA, as well. And then there's Smith Is. in the Chesapeake, which is still English!

[upthecreekgotapaddle]

Southern is defined as where I live at the moment.

(No, not proud of my Southern heritage in the least!)

[SallyField]

Originally Posted by waydownsouth

Hello, I live in NC along the SC border. I've heard a lot of Virginian's consider themselves southerners. Some people say the potomac is what divides the south from the midatlantic. What do y'all think.

DC is a mix, where North meets South. Kennedy famously remarked that it has the worst of each: "Washington is a city of Southern efficiency and Northern charm." - John F. Kennedy

Maybe I'm more traditionalist, but I think DC and even Baltimore have a distinct "Southern" feel. I'd say you start feeling like you are in "the North" once you up around Newark, Delaware.

[saganista]

So, what are the hallmarks of all this "southerness" that might determine the nature of a region? So far, it seems that rural is an influence, along with long ago attitudes toward segregation and which if any side an area was on during the even longer ago Civil War. Is that about it?