Nova gets more for roads than it gives? (Richmond Times Dispatch Article) (Virginia Beach: neighborhood, wedding)

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by Alicia Bradley

bbdad, Fairfax County's total property tax revenues are very, very high. Fairfax City has been able to maintain its roadsides and medians satisfactorily with *lower* property taxes.

But it really comes down to what residents are happy with. If you guys living in Fairfax Co. are satisfied with the status quo,

Our cost of living is high, which increases costs. We also spend a lot on our school system, and we have an excellent system of public parks (my DW and I often discuss what a unique asset the county has created in its trail system, especially the CCT) We do a lot of things that few other jurisdictions do.

(BTW, you seem proud of FFX city and its treatment of pedestrians - could you do me a favor and find out what the deal is with the pedestrian tunnel under Pickett - you know, where the CCT turns north via the sidewalk, but there used to a be tunnel connecting it to at a FFX city trail? its been closed since winter (well last we looked was over a month ago), and theres nothing on the sign indicating why or when it will reopen. I asked FFX county parks, but they said thats the Citys turf)

There is much I am outraged about. Very little involving FFX county govt, and such as there is, involves the schools. I do not find the weeds on the arterials to be a matter particularly worthy of outrage - despite the fact that I walk on an unkempt arterial rather more than most FFX county citizens (and not just for recreation).

[brooklynborndad]

Fairfax County Library Director Looks for Support for Libraries - McLean, VA Patch

perhaps if you know where there is $ lying around, it could be spent to restore FFX cty library hours.

I will consider supporting prioritizing weeding on the strips adjacent to sidewalks, in places where there are more than five pedestrians passing every hour. I would consider that a very low bar for "more than a few walkers" but perhaps others here disagree.

[brooklynborndad]

heres someone other than me who walks in the suburbs of NoVa and feels similarly A Walker in the Suburbs

"And yes, it is true that our long driveways and wide lawns, our streets without sidewalks, do not foster walking or biking. They keep the automobile king. "

Of course if you change my words to the strawman "NOBODY walks" its easy to prove me wrong.

[Caladium]

I'm happy with the weeding that's currently being done. Having a lot of pedestrians is no reason to change it, IMO. FWIW I think there may be more pedestrians than BBD thinks. I walk to work, and see a lot of other pedestrians. But, that's a side issue. No matter how many pedestrians are out and about, the weeding is fine in my neck of the woods But I don't live in the same part of Nova that Alicia, so maybe we are comparing different roads. Alicia, I wonder if you could post a photo of one of the roads near you, so we can see what you're talking about?

Speaking about photos, this is a good opportunity to me look through our photo files. I don't recall any photo tours specifically to show medians, but they do show up in lots of photo so this should be a good random collection of Nova medians (hopefully).

I'll post it just as soon as I can throw something together.

[Caladium]

Holy cow, I was surprised how few shots we had that showed medians.

With some of these you have to look carefully, because it's off in a corner of the shot. I guess median's don't make it into photos as often as you think because you try to focus the shot on the building, not the road in front. I have a lot that show roadsides, but medians are harder to find.

At any rate, here are some random photos we happened to have. I'll have to do a more comprehensive photo tour of medians one of these days.



























http://www.keogan.com/rtcarchitecture0023.jpg (broken link)
Here's a bike path with a median, LOL

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by Caladium

I'm happy with the weeding that's currently being done. Having a lot of pedestrians is no reason to change it, IMO. FWIW I think there may be more pedestrians than BBD thinks. I walk to work, and see a lot of other pedestrians. .

are you discussing Cascades? Could be. Thats a large planned community, no? I would expect someplace like that (and also Reston, etc) to have more pedestrians than typical suburban areas around here. I am particularly familiar with Kingstowne, and while its not exactly what I would look to for a vibrant pedestrian area, its both relatively walkable, and has relatively alot of walking, for a suburb.

I was thinking in particular of the LRT corridor. The area west of the beltway almost all the way to Old Town FFX has very little pedestrian activity. And the area from the western edge of Old town FFX out well, as far as the LRT/50 intersection has very little pedestrian activity. In general in Fairfax county, my observation has been you mostly see pedestrians, other than in the planned communities of Kingstowne and Reston, in places with lots of lower income people who have limited auto access - places like inside the beltway annandale (on and south of LRT), or Blake lane. Never seen many in Oakton, and suprisingly few in Vienna. The other exception of course, are the times and places where the most dog walkers are - as I said above, thats a niche of pedestrian activity.

This is NOT because people in planned communities are fundamentally different people than others are - just as city people, IMO, are not fundamentally different. Its about how different street layouts and urban forms are more or less conducive to walking.

[brooklynborndad]

as for weeds

I dont have pics handy, but I think AB is not far off in finding LRT in annandale fairfax to be particularly weedy. Im not really sure about other parts of FFX. I would not be surprised if LC spends more on such mtnce then FFX County, as FFX county has a a different set of costs and socio economic issues.

As for number of pedestrians, heres what I meant. west of the beltway, LRT has lots of cars, and few pedestrians. East of the beltway, it has lots of cars, and more pedestrians than west of the bw. Given that, it seems more important to make the grassy strips (the sidewalk side ones more than than the medians) attractive, as drivers hardly notice it in a glance. Pedestrians not only get more visual (and allergenic) exposure, but in some places the growth can actually physically impede walking (if you think that shouldnt matter because one should walk on the sidewalk, you seriously overestimate the completeness of the sidewalk net here)

There is one busstop I am thinking of, where you alight onto a grassy, unpaved median. This will need pics, I will try to get some at some point.

[Caladium]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

are you discussing Cascades? Could be. Thats a large planned community, no? I would expect someplace like that (and also Reston, etc) to have more pedestrians than typical suburban areas around here.

LOL, just my opinion but I think the large planned community actually IS the typical suburban area around here. There are dozens of them. Maybe hundreds.

You've got a point that I don't know anything about LRT, so I'll take your word that there are few pedestrians there. But so what? Whether or not you find walkers in LRT doesn't mean you won't find plenty of pedestrians in lots of other Nova suburbs--LRT does not represent Nova, it just represents LRT. I also think you'll find plenty of pedestrians in communities other than the planned communities. Michgc used to talk about walking in Vienna. I have lots of photos of pedestrians in Falls Church, Fairfax City, Rosslyn, Clarendon, etc.

BTW, I was not discussing Cascades per se, I was discussing Nova in general. The photos I just posted are from a number of communities in both Fairfax and Loudoun, including the Fairfax communities of Falls Church, Fair Lakes, Fairfax, Herndon and Reston.

Meanwhile, we're getting off topic here. Let's get back to discussing the complaint that Nova gets more money for roads than we pay taxes for.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by Caladium

You've got a point that I don't know anything about LRT, so I'll take your word that there are few pedestrians there. But so what? Whether or not you find walkers in LRT doesn't mean you won't find plenty of pedestrians in lots of other Nova suburbs--LRT does not represent Nova, it just represents LRT. I also think you'll find plenty of pedestrians in communities other than the planned communities. Michgc used to talk about walking in Vienna. I have lots of photos of pedestrians in Falls Church, Fairfax City, Rosslyn, Clarendon, etc.

Falls church, FFX city, Rosslyn and Clarendon. None of those are Fairfax County, which is what AB and I were discussing. None of them. Rosslyn and Clarendon arguably arent "suburban" and Falls church and FFX city are examples of older, pre sprawl towns which were then absorbed into suburbia. My sense is that most of the pedestrians in FFX city are in old town FFX, or are students by GMU. There are many parts of FFX city with few pedestrians.

Ive spent a fair amount of time in Vienna as well. The prime areas for pedestrians there are in the area of the presprawl town, - main street and church street. And of course on the W&OD (note I said walking on sidewalks - I was excluding trails). I would say most of Vienna you will see few pedestrians.

Ive been around here a while, and I would suggest there is nothing distinctive in the LRT corridor compared to other parts of NoVa with similar (or higher) income levels and similar densities and layouts. That would include Burke, west springfield, north springfield, mclean, oakton, and the "better" parts of the Mt Vernon corridor.

As for large planned communities, in FFX cty Kingstowne, Reston, and now the Lorton area stand out. I cannot speak for LC.


Now that THATS settled, I agree:

"Meanwhile, we're getting off topic here. Let's get back to discussing the complaint that Nova gets more money for roads than we pay taxes for."

[Caladium]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

Falls church, FFX city, Rosslyn and Clarendon. None of those are Fairfax County, which is what AB and I were discussing. None of them.

No problem, I also have photos that show pedestrians in Herndon, Vienna, Tysons, Fair Oaks, Fair Lakes, Reston, and McLean. We can start a new thread if you'd like to see them. Or if you prefer written comments over photos, I could post a few quotes from threads in this forum where people discussed walking--I know for a fact that Vienna and Herndon have been discussed, as well as walking to Wolftrap concerts--who know there might even be a few posts about other FX areas, those are just the ones I remember right now. I could also post notices from meetup groups and walking clubs. I know of two that meet in Fair Oaks and Reston (and these groups walk in neighborhoods not trails, FWIW--they like to look at houses and stores).

All good things for another thread, I guess. I'm going on vacation this week, but I'll be happy to continue the discussion when we return if you'd like.