Government Employment Question (Stanley: contractors, law, move)

[saganista]

Originally Posted by ChristineVA

I actually see this going on in our contractor workforce. It's amazing. Now they are not actually brought in at the VP level but the fact that a program manager brings their kids in is astounding to me.

It's too bad there isn't a Freedom of Information Act that applies to the private sector. They myth of private sector efficiency would evaporate in a jiffy if there were.

[ChristineVA]

Originally Posted by shamrock847

True, but often the job description is so narrowly written that only candidates who have worked in the job or in the office as a contractor, fed employee, or member of the military have the very specific experience needed to make the cut. The very narrow focus of many federal hiring managers could be considered settling for a "good enough" but known quantity rather than a potentially better but unknown "off the street" candidate.

Job descriptions are written very narrowly because, in general, the positions to be held require a very defined type of expertise that is hard to get from someone off the street.

I work in a finance field that would seem to be a fit for anyone who has a knack for numbers, but it's not really.

The type of stuff I'm doing accounting for is a "niche" field and in that field there are so many nuances and rules and policy that it often takes a bright person 5-6 years to be proficient in this type of work (and that's putting the accounting portion aside). On top of that we work in a new accounting system imposed upon us that is awful. It takes several months just to complete the training to get your accounting roles authorized and another 6-8 months just to feel mildly proficient in the system.

We have two openings in my office--one that I'm putting out to all sources. While there may be some whipsmart financial person out there that would knock my socks off, I can't really afford to take that person because I don't want to have a span of time where this person needs to learn out overall business. Because it takes years.

So I will be looking to the our contractor workforce to apply for this job becuase they will have most of the knowledlge of the field plus they will have already had some hands-on training in our accounting system.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by shamrock847

True, but often the job description is so narrowly written that only candidates who have worked in the job or in the office as a contractor, fed employee, or member of the military have the very specific experience needed to make the cut.

That's certainly done, and I've certainly done it. Frequently, the reason is that the opening exists at all only because of the manager's intent to promote the incumbent at a level defined as being competitive. That means the position has to be advertised. You can be quite sure that the advertised requirements in that case are going to be narrowly enough tailored so that the guy or gal to be promoted can't be aced out of the job by somebody else. Read the announcement. It's entirely obvious when and where this is the case. Many announcements limit applicants to those with career-service status. That eliminates off-the-street candidates right off the bat.

Originally Posted by shamrock847

The very narrow focus of many federal hiring managers could be considered settling for a "good enough" but known quantity rather than a potentially better but unknown "off the street" candidate.

If that were the pre-determined conclusion to be arrived at, perhaps. Keep in mind that while there are exceptions, GS-12 is typically the top of the career-ladder and that promotions up to that level are non-competitive. For an economist at least, GS-12 is the level of a full professional, the equivalent of an experienced PhD. Promotions beyond that level are competitive.

Do you have a PhD and the experience to compete with the guy or gal who's already been doing the job for six or eight years? If so, apply. You won't get that job, but if you are right about your qualifications, there's a good chance that someone will soon enough be writing up an announcement that's tailored just to you.

[usmarinexi]

Originally Posted by shamrock847

True, but often the job description is so narrowly written that only candidates who have worked in the job or in the office as a contractor, fed employee, or member of the military have the very specific experience needed to make the cut. The very narrow focus of many federal hiring managers could be considered settling for a "good enough" but known quantity rather than a potentially better but unknown "off the street" candidate.

Shamrock, I'd advise you to slow your role.

They put the prerequisites on the website for the job that they are hiring for. You either have what they are looking for...or you don't. The reason they are looking for military, government contractor etc; is because that speaks volumes about the applicant straight off the bat. It is a federal job afterall. There is no 'good enough' about it. They have earned that chance at that job more than someone straight off the street that doesn't have a credible reference, a secret clearance, knows about OPSEC, or anything else for that matter. You're complaining about the hiring process of a federal job without justifying anything and just simply running your mouth.

Thats like complaining about you thinking your a better baseball game announcer, but get upset when a player retires and gets the job over you.

**** go apply somewhere else.

[Jenny the Philosopher]

I hate to say this, but this really is a bad time to seek federal employment, at least at my agency. My agency is actually having an unofficial reduction in force, even though its budget has not been formally cut yet. When an employee retires or moves to greener pastures, she is not replaced. The work is assigned to the remaining people, but none of them gets a promotion or raise to take on the additional work. The internship program, which used to be the main route to entry-level work, has gone from about 200 per year to about 15. I must say, I get so angry when people say federal jobs are easy or low-pressure. The hours are long, the responsibilities are heavy, and, unlike attornies and lobbiests, we cannot "bill" for our time. Every year, most people at my agency have "use or lose" vacation that we forfeit because the work will not be handled by somebody else while we are gone. After a vacation or illness, an employ has to burn the midnight oil just to catch up.

[still_waiting]

Original Poster I am a less than one year new federal gov't employee so I can give you a quite fresh perspective. Oh and BTW I NEVER dealt with USAJOBS. TO be honest I don't think I'd have a fed job had I went through USAJOBS. My perception is that it is a resume graveyard where only retired 4 Star Generals are qualified enough to get a job (tongue in cheek ).

So what did I do? I went to hiring events and job fairs. This way I could get some face to face time. This led to a panel interview, which led to the job. Mind you that from the panel interview until my first day of work it took almost 17 months. Most of which was for my security clearance. The advice my interviewers gave me was "don't depend on this if you need a job right away...be patient and do something to occupy your time because it will take awhile".

OP, keep plugging away, just make sure you are concurrently pursuing other avenues of employment, because even when the economy is on the up and up the process takes forever. Even when you get the job you may struggle until getting to a higher GS, so patience, diligence, and hardiness is the key.

If you have any specific questions, please ask or PM me. I'll answer to the best of my ability.

[CAVA1990]

Originally Posted by Jenny the Philosopher

When an employee retires or moves to greener pastures, she is not replaced. The work is assigned to the remaining people, but none of them gets a promotion or raise to take on the additional work.

That's another behavior more common in big organizations.A smaller company wouldn't wait for an employee to move on. If they can increase the bottom line by spreading the work around, they'll generally pre-emptively let someone go or reassign them to more productive activities.

[slowrollem]

I have to agree with the Job Fair approach. My husband spent many years in the military. After getting out he got a contracting job within his agency. Finally after tons of applications, playing political chess and KSA's , he got a DOD job with that agency. Once he wanted promotions he had to wait for funding, billet openings, etc. He decided to skip all of that and went to job fair for his agency. Got a same day interview and the position within 3 months.

Most of his coworkers didn't even know there were positions opened because they hadn't been announced yet. It's easier to get face to face time and a have a resume in hand than trying to fill out those ridiculous forms on USAJobs.

Starting out as a contractor is a great way to get in.

Just our experience, hope that helps!

[CAVA1990]

Originally Posted by slowrollem

I have to agree with the Job Fair approach. My husband spent many years in the military. After getting out he got a contracting job within his agency. Finally after tons of applications, playing political chess and KSA's , he got a DOD job with that agency. Once he wanted promotions he had to wait for funding, billet openings, etc. He decided to skip all of that and went to job fair for his agency. Got a same day interview and the position within 3 months.

Most of his coworkers didn't even know there were positions opened because they hadn't been announced yet. It's easier to get face to face time and a have a resume in hand than trying to fill out those ridiculous forms on USAJobs.

Starting out as a contractor is a great way to get in.

Just our experience, hope that helps!

A lot of job fairs are limited to cleared individuals only. Not sure how that works with government jobs but it definitely helps with getting a contractor job if you're already cleared. Might be worthwhile taking a slightly lower position with a contractor that enables you to get your clearance before making a move to something you ulitmately want to do.

[Smoke_Jaguar4]

Federal hiring manager here. The job fair approach above is a good way in, but not quite the 'short cut' around USAJOBS. You still need a decent resume. Here's the standard advice I give anyone applying for federal positions:

On your resume:
- Use the format in USAJOBS. Yes, it sucks but hiring managers are "psychologically conditioned" to use it.
- Get "Ten Steps to a Federal Job" by Kathryn Troutman. It is the best non-gov resource on how to apply and get hired in the Fed.
- Unlike non-gov resumes, there's no restriction on how long you resume can be. The ones I see are typically 5 - 6 pages long. That said, use the length to give your qualifications and accomplishments; I can spot BS, buzzwords and filler a mile away. Be direct, honest, use active voice, and reuse the language from the announcement where possible.
- I don't know what you don't tell me. A lot of otherwise promising candidates leave things off their resumes, forcing me to fill in the gaps for them. There's no penalty for including 'too much' information since a hiring manager may read the entire thing or focus on your two last jobs.
- Spelling and grammar!!! After three typos, I move on to the next resume. Other managers are less generous.
- On the questionaire, always select the "you are an expert..." option. This section is complete BS and rewards people for inflating their answers; don't filter yourself out. Everyone hates it.
- If you have a security clearance and any certifications, put these clearly in the Additional Information section.

On your particular situation, you mentioned wanting to work at State, DoI, or the Smithsonian. You may want to consider applying to other agencies in the same career fields. Once you are hired, you gain 'status' which opens up a lot of jobs that are not open to the public. It will then be easier to transition to your desired agency.