Advice from anyone with a government job ... (apartment, lease)

[Panks]

Can anyone tell me what the odds are "in general" of getting government jobs? Is it pretty good or more like winning the lottery? The odds of getting a job seem very low since I'm assuming they get tons of resumes, plus I'm not even considered until they rule out anyone already in the government,military and veterans.

I know a lot depends on the job and the more unusual/difficult, the better your chances etc etc..But what about the average jobs? Do they get hundreds or thousands of resumes per listing? It says it may take 60 days to get feedback, but do they really contact you after 3 weeks? or should I just assume I didn't make the cut after 3 weeks? I am assuming I wouldn't get anywhere if I tried to call and check on my application or do people do that?

The USAjobs website says they have recruiters! Has anyone ever been contacted by a gov recruiter for a job? Does the gov pay better or worse than private sector jobs?

If you get a job in DC, can you assume there is a huge parking lot available so you can drive to work..or is parking in DC, the same expensive nightmare like it is in San Francisco $15-35/day.

Here is my #1 question...I'm trying to figure out whether its better to just move there because the odds of getting a job are better for people that already live near DC?? or wait on moving until I actually get a job because the jobs are scattered..one job is in college park and another is in DC etc..

Any advice or insight would be greatly appreciated

P.S Ironically, I have a recruiting background

[claremarie]

I have limited experience working in the government, so can't answer those questions, but would suggest that you consider renting an apartment in a close-in suburb under a corporate/short-term lease arrangement until you line up a job. As you apparently know, govenment (and other) employers are located in many different parts of the metro area, and keeping your commute reasonable should be your number one housing priority.

[mlv311]

While it can be difficult to get a government job, it isn't impossible. You are more likely to get "in the door" if you are open to a clerical/technician job or a entry level professional job since you don't have veterans preference or career status. (One exception is if you are in a highly specialized field then you almost have your pick.) However, in these type of jobs (clerical/technical/entry level), any applicant who is a qualified disabled veteran will be on the top of the cert and unless the selecting official can make strong case, he/she will be unable to hire anyone else from the cert and "pass the veteran." By the same token, anyone who can claim veterans preference will have 5 or 10 points added to their score, which also puts them above similarly qualified applicants. Keep in mind too that budget drives an agency's ability to fill a vacancy so many vacancies you see advertised go unfill even after interviews and selections. Agencies will also require a background investigation and although waivers are granted, you have to add this wait time to the whole application processing time.

I would not read too much into not getting a response by a certain timeframe. Some agencies are good about keeping you apprised of your application status; others are very negligent and you never hear a word. Delays are quite common.

I also think that considering how big the metro area is that you might want to consider settling on a permanent home after you know where you'll be working.

Good luck.

ETA: I forgot to mention that it doesn't matter how many applications they get for a vacancy. Anybody who doesn't meet the deadline or minimum requirements is cut out. How well you address the KSAs (knowledge, skills, abilities) determines most of your score.

[LLD]

I can give you some background. All government agencies are different. Some are responsive and some are slow as molasses. But it is better than it used to be. And you can get feedback after the position has closed. You can also ask questions and get clarifications on applying before the position closes. Many of the government jobs list HR contacts now with a phone number or email address. Some agencies have even set up a general HR email and they answer your questions. I have been pleasantly surprised.

Now there are some differences in the way jobs are advertised. There are some that are ONLY open to government people and you can't apply for those unless you currently work for the feds or previously did. The jobs that say "open to the public" anyone can apply for. Veterans can and do get preference points in the positions they apply for but that doesn't guarantee them the job - just gives them a chance at getting farther down the line in the process. You still have to meet the stated qualifications and a person that is highly qualified could still get ranked higher in the seleciton process than a veteran that got some preference points.

Now, if the job is advertised as a merit promotion and still open to the public also, those are the hardest to get because usually that means someone from government is competing for that promotion and will more than likely have much more of a match than someone from the outside.

The way government applicaitons work, is that you need to really be super detailed in answering the questions and especally the selection and ranking factors because the personnel specialist will use that to rank you against everyone else. Usually, only the top 2 or 3 people in a set of qualified candidates get referred to the hiring manager. At that point, the manager then decides whether to call you or not for an interview. This process can take anywhere from 2-6 months (from the time the job closes until a decision is made).

It is a really tough process to navigate but it can be done and many people do get government jobs. Lots of people go in as fresh graduates which many agencies hire and work there way up etc. And if you are in a shortage category like computer scientists, information technology specialists, nurses and some others, you are going to have a much better chance because there are lots of those positions.

The usajobs.gov website is fairly decent if you are able to apply for the job online and you will see periodic updates as to resume received, not qualified, not selected or referred to hiring manager. If you can't apply online (and many agencies haven't implemented this or use other systems), then you won't get updates on that site. It's still a big hodge podge.

All that said, I hardly ever recommend moving before securing another job.

[Panks]

thanks so much for the data everyone !

MLV311-I didn't understand what you meant about the budget though...you mean they advertise jobs even though there is no budget for it? don't they have to get it approved first before they post a job???

As far as getting my foot in the door with an entry level job first...is it really frowned upon to get a job then apply for a different job a few months later? I know you can hide a short-term job by not putting it on your resume..but with the government, I assume they'll know if I was employed with another department for any length of time.....right?

LLD- Thank you! That helps a lot. more than 2 months would be really hard for me financially, so I have to factor that in.

What are the selection and ranking factors? is that the same as the KSAO statements? I'm kicking myself for not putting in more effort on those I spent so many hours on my resume that my brain was just fried.

Also,do you know if "term" jobs come with benefits or are they like temp jobs?

Too bad I'm 20 years past being a recent grad, otherwise I'd probably have a better chance. I can see why people don't leave gov jobs since they're so hard to get.

[LLD]

Term appointments do have benefits yes. And many term appointments usually have at least on option of renewal for another term but there is no guarantee so it is good to ask.

Oftentimes in a government job annoucement there will be a selective factor -- which means if you don't meet that one thing you won't be selected at all to compete. So spend some time on answering that because it is the key to getting to the next step.

Then there will be ranking factors or KSA's (knowledge, skills and abilities) or whatever... and that is what they will use to rank you against others if you meet the selective factor.

Then if the announcement says only the most qualified will be considered, that is the part that usually means only the highest ranked 2 or 3 will be referred to the hiring manager.

If you only have 2 months of savings that is not enough for the DC area. I'd say you need at least a year's worth. Also as very general rule... it takes one month of job hunting time for every $10K of salary to secure a position. So on average it takes 6 months if you are looking for a $60K job. That is just a general rule. Sometimes it will be much quicker, sometimes it will take the full six months. It depends on the field and the market etc.

These days long distance job hunting can take a year. And many employers are not paying the relo expenses, even in the government which used to. I've seen several six figure positions with the government that don't pay relocation expenses. That seems to be one place that both companies and government jobs have decided to make a cut. Very interesting considering during the tech boom, the relo packages were outrageous. I expected an adjustment but I didn't expect them to go away totally.

I've moved cross country several times for my career and every time I've gotten relo expenses but I'm prepared to forego them this time.

One time when I did a long distance job hunt it took me about 4 months...another time it took me almost a year. There are many factors such as field, market, economy etc.

There's an art to applying for government positions. Really really pay attention to the announcement and gear everything towards that and the selective and ranking factors. Use lots of action words. Don't be passive. Example: Designed testing protocols and analyzed results with a focus on X. Don't say: Was responsible for software testing.

[mlv311]

Originally Posted by Panks

MLV311[/b]-I didn't understand what you meant about the budget though...you mean they advertise jobs even though there is no budget for it? don't they have to get it approved first before they post a job???

I'm not suggesting this is the norm, but it does happen. If an agency's personnel and benefits budget is centrally managed, you have a better chance that a vacancy advertised does have funding. Sometimes vacancies are not filled because by the time they are done processing applications and interviewing applicants, it's the end of the fiscal year and the agency is under a continuing resolution or ends up with a lower than anticipated appropriation.

On your other question about applying for a job soon after being hired, you have to determine if it's worth doing so soon (e.g., 2 months). For one thing, you will still have to apply as a non-status applicant because you won't have career status. If you do it because the position you are applying for is permanent and you have accepted a temporary appointment, then you can explain that during an interview. If it's a professional job (and you are in a clerical/technical job) or if it offers a better career ladder, you can explain that. But otherwise, a selecting official who has invested money in bringing you on-board (e.g., background investigation, training, etc.) may feel let down to think that he/she has to go through another long wait to get another employee and a prospective boss may wonder how long you'll stick around. All this being said, it's quite common for federal employees to change jobs when new opportunities arise, but I think 2 months is too soon.