building a home on a lot - site work costs? (Fairfax: homes, contractor)

[spencgr]

Originally Posted by llcplus

I need an advice. I am building with ANV now. There have been numerous issues I have not been satisfied with their home building process, but I could not say anything because of the way contract is written. (If a potential new home buyer is reading this, I suggest a serious second thought on selecting ANV.) I tried not to say anything negative openly before due to fear of retaliation by ANV, but at this point, I figure it cannot get any worse. I can now really appreciate “MrGordon’s” posts earlier on how frustrating it was to deal with ANV. So, here I am. Latest incident pushed me over the edge. I am building a home with three car garage. Two spaces are very tight but cars can be parked there. The third space closest to the door that opens into the house is shallower than the other two. This is because of the four steps leading up to the door into the house are at the far end of the space. This space is so shallow that if I parked my Toyota Camry there, most of the trunk section will protrude beyond the garage door threshold and would not allow the garage door to come down. The field superintendent tells me that he has built many, many houses with garages just like mine and nobody had complained. (I find that hard to believe.) Basically, he said that there is nothing that can be done at this point. I am devastated. As far as I am concerned, what they are building is not a house with three car garage. The three car garage played a big part in our floor selection. Do I have recourse? What can I do? Please help.

Did you not provide specifications as to the size of the garage/ spaces or at least review and approve the plans before construction?

I feel bad for you, I really do, but the blame is not all on ANV here. When building a home, renovating a home, or hiring any contractor, it is up the OWNER to be extremely specific and detailed as the scope in the contract. Everything should be in writing.

[llcplus]

Originally Posted by spencgr

Did you not provide specifications as to the size of the garage/ spaces or at least review and approve the plans before construction?

I feel bad for you, I really do, but the blame is not all on ANV here. When building a home, renovating a home, or hiring any contractor, it is up the OWNER to be extremely specific and detailed as the scope in the contract. Everything should be in writing.

I have a contract that says that they will build a three car garage, period. It does give dimensions. What it does not say is how many steps there will be from garage floor to the first floor. I believe that information is not available until the site plan is received. ANV's architect should have noticed when they got the site plan from the engineers that, based on the elevation information, certain number of steps will be required from garage floor to the first floor. If the steps exceeded more than XX number, the floor plan has to be adjusted to accommodate the steps. Or, they should at least notify me and the engineer that the site plan is not appropriate for three car garage, wouldn't you think???!!! The problem is that ANV does not share their architectural drawings with the client. There is no opportunity to comment on the specifics of the drawings until they are built. I trusted that they would build the garage as specified in the contract. They said that they built the same floor plan many times.

[spencgr]

Originally Posted by llcplus

The problem is that ANV does not share their architectural drawings with the client. There is no opportunity to comment on the specifics of the drawings until they are built.

That is 100% your fault for not insisting on design review and approval meetings. I've never heard of this not being part of a standard build out process.

Originally Posted by llcplus

I trusted that they would build the garage as specified in the contract. They said that they built the same floor plan many times.

This is business. You don't "trust"; you get it in writing. If all you have in your contract is "three car garage", and you can fit three SmartCars in there, they've fulfilled their obligation.

[llcplus]

Originally Posted by spencgr

That is 100% your fault for not insisting on design review and approval meetings. I've never heard of this not being part of a standard build out process.

This is business. You don't "trust"; you get it in writing. If all you have in your contract is "three car garage", and you can fit three SmartCars in there, they've fulfilled their obligation.

You are right. It is my fault. I should never have gotten into the contract with ANV. I already know that. Unfortunately, I did. I am here now asking for advice, not get bashed around for making mistake already made. Are you that ANV staff pretending to be someone else on the blog criticizing anyone saying anything negative about ANV? I learned a valuable lesson. You do not have to remind me again and again that I should get everything in writing. Do you have any advice to offer other than saying how stupid I was???? Can you say anything substantive that could help me rectify the situation? Something like "tysonsengineer" does about where to find regulations, what the standard is when the builders say they build "three car garage", etc. Again, I am asking for any pointers, if any, so that I can try to correct the problem.

[FCNova]

Sorry about your situation. At this point it sounds like much of the structure has been built? So I don't know if they'll willingly spend a ton of money to move walls around and make the garage larger at this point. You could sue I suppose if you think they breached the contract, but even if they did it would probably cost you more money than it's worth. I hope you are able to work something out. Good luck.

[spencgr]

Originally Posted by llcplus

Are you that ANV staff pretending to be someone else on the blog criticizing anyone saying anything negative about ANV?

Yes, I joined this forum four years ago with the hope that I could one day defend the wonderful ANV. And now my dreams have come true.

Seriously, I have no idea if ANV is a good or bad contractor, I have zero experience with them. (from the amount of complaints, I'm guessing they're not good, but I don't know.) But, my only point was that your specific example cannot be blamed entirely on them. You (and other people building houses) need to do due dilligence and accept the responsibility to be fully aware of the process and design.

I wish I had advice to give you at this point.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by llcplus

You are right. It is my fault. I should never have gotten into the contract with ANV. I already know that. Unfortunately, I did. I am here now asking for advice, not get bashed around for making mistake already made. Are you that ANV staff pretending to be someone else on the blog criticizing anyone saying anything negative about ANV? I learned a valuable lesson. You do not have to remind me again and again that I should get everything in writing. Do you have any advice to offer other than saying how stupid I was???? Can you say anything substantive that could help me rectify the situation? Something like "tysonsengineer" does about where to find regulations, what the standard is when the builders say they build "three car garage", etc. Again, I am asking for any pointers, if any, so that I can try to correct the problem.

ANV and Classic Homes are essentially the same...owned by related family members. They use the same plans, sub, etc. I don't have a high opinion of either. Many enter in agreements with these outfits and only to later learn that you are just buying a functional box and then when you start adding up the nice things, etc costs sometimes go above what it would have cost you to get a true custom home built. They offer a nice "price per sq ft" package and that draws in prospects.

IMO, the 3-car garage these outfits offer is barely a 3-car garage. I cannot understand why they just don't make each of the doors a bit wider (at a very marginal increase in cost) so that normal vehicles can actually get in and out without damaging the vehicle and/or the home. Why not just build into the base price?

Specifically, regarding your issue, your home builder, working in concert with your site engineer should have made the adjustment to the foundation plan to bump out the garage to allow enough space for the additional steps. This is pretty standard stuff.....and a good builder will always pick it up. This is standard fare....adjustment to floor plans must be made after grading plan is finalized.

Good luck.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by firstdown

ANV and Classic Homes are essentially the same...owned by related family members. They use the same plans, sub, etc. I don't have a high opinion of either. Many enter in agreements with these outfits and only to later learn that you are just buying a functional box and then when you start adding up the nice things, etc costs sometimes go above what it would have cost you to get a true custom home built. They offer a nice "price per sq ft" package and that draws in prospects.

IMO, the 3-car garage these outfits offer is barely a 3-car garage. I cannot understand why they just don't make each of the doors a bit wider (at a very marginal increase in cost) so that normal vehicles can actually get in and out without damaging the vehicle and/or the home. Why not just build into the base price?

Specifically, regarding your issue, your home builder, working in concert with your site engineer should have made the adjustment to the foundation plan to bump out the garage to allow enough space for the additional steps. This is pretty standard stuff.....and a good builder will always pick it up. This is standard fare....adjustment to floor plans must be made after grading plan is finalized.

Good luck.

All the more reason to hire a professional engineer to act as a 3rd party mitigation on these types of issues. Otherwise, when you hire a custom home builder, they will hire their own preferred engineer, and then you have no checks and balances or QC on what they are doing. Home building is more than the sticks and bricks, sounds like your site topography and geometry came into place on this garage, a civil engineer working for you likely could have helped. Unfortunately, 20/20 hindsight won't help with a built condition, I'm sorry but hopefully others can learn from this mistake.

[Forehead]

What's the general consensus on smaller time custom home builders vs. the bigger companies like ANV, Classic, etc. A quick search for Customs Home builders in McLean/Falls Church (where the OP said his build was occurring) brings up a bunch of companies I've never heard of.

Was curious if they have better reputations for quality, customer service, etc. Just curious, I have no immediate intention of building a house.

[llcplus]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

All the more reason to hire a professional engineer to act as a 3rd party mitigation on these types of issues. Otherwise, when you hire a custom home builder, they will hire their own preferred engineer, and then you have no checks and balances or QC on what they are doing. Home building is more than the sticks and bricks, sounds like your site topography and geometry came into place on this garage, a civil engineer working for you likely could have helped. Unfortunately, 20/20 hindsight won't help with a built condition, I'm sorry but hopefully others can learn from this mistake.

I definitely hope people learn from my mistake. Unless they are sitting on a pile of extra cash to spend, have lots of time on their hand to coordinate activities, do not mind all the deviations from the contract specifications, can wait 18 months for delivery of home (and have another place to stay at least for 9 to 12 months), don't mind being at the builder's mercy, etc., building a home on your own, without professional help on your side, is not something an average homeowner should embark on.

Many people on the blog say that one should get everything in writing. That is easier said than done if you are building with semi-custom builders. They give you the contract with take it or leave it attitude.