Portage, IN: the "Gary/Hammond/E.C." of Porter County? (Indianapolis: sale, apartment)

[pcg]

I have to say this, and I am not a "racist", I am white middle class. I worked in East Chicago for 30+ years. Traveled through Gary often and know quite well what race makes up the city's population. It is primarily black. It is crime infested, gang infested, dilapidated, an eyesore of a city and not a nice place to live for any human being. It is what it is.

That said, I moved to the Phoenix area a few years ago. There are people of all races in Phoenix. What was a breath of fresh to me was seeing black people who work hard, raise their children in a family unit, keep up their homes, and make good neighbors, people who I want to be friends with. It was an eye opener for me to see that not all black people live like the ones in Gary, South Chicago, "The Heights", etc. Having a black family in my neighborhood means absolutely nothing. They are just people with black skin, mine is olive, and my wife’s is light complected. Other than that there is no difference between any of us.

I do not even attempt to know how to help the people of Gary and these other blighted communities out of the mess they live in. Welfare programs and state aid has not done it. All I know is that it does not have to be that way. Hard work and the will to make sure your children have better opportunities than you had, has always been the way. I don’t see the color of your skin having all that much to do with it, at least not in this day and age.

As for Portage, low income housing will kill the City. History repeats itself. Just wait and see.

[Colts]

Originally Posted by pcg

It was an eye opener for me to see that not all black people live like the ones in Gary, South Chicago, "The Heights", etc.

What concerns me is, why would you make the assumption that all black people live like the ones in blighted sections of Lake County?

I'm sure that if I lived near the poorest areas of Appalachian Kentucky, I might have a less than savory view of the locals, but I certainly wouldn't automatically expect people living in other areas to have the same lifestyles as a function of them also being white, if everything else was different and ethnicity was the only similarity.

[pcg]

Why? Because we are a product of our environment. I have lived and worked in that environment all my life. Would a person expect any thing other than what you know to be true?

That may be the same reason why the people of Gary continue on in that same lifestyle generation after generation. That is all they know.

[Colts]

Originally Posted by pcg

Why? Because we are a product of our environment. I have lived and worked in that environment all my life. Would a person expect any thing other than what you know to be true?

You're looking for the answer to a question that doesn't exist. Since you had that expectation from the get go, then there's your answer right there.

Besides, nature vs. nurture is irrelevant here--it wouldn't change your opinion about blacks either way.

[pcg]

Originally Posted by Colts

You're looking for the answer to a question that doesn't exist. Since you had that expectation from the get go, then there's your answer right there.

Besides, nature vs. nurture is irrelevant here--it wouldn't change your opinion about blacks either way.

And just what is my opinion of blacks? Tell me.

[Colts]

Originally Posted by pcg

And just what is my opinion of blacks? Tell me.

I don't have to. Your words speak for themselves.

Seriously, though--would you ever move into an all black neighborhood?

[pcg]

This is just ridiculous and I should not even be playing this race game with you. But I will. You tell me where there is an all black neighborhood with home values in the $200k to $500k range, good schools, low crime rate, and steady property values? Where? That’s the neighborhood I would choose to live in.


Black, Hispanic, Asian, Caucasian, anyone who wants to, all live in the neighborhood I live in right now. We all want the same things. That’s why we are here. It is a good safe clean community, a nice place to raise your kids. Skin color, country of origin, religion, they make no difference. It's a far cry from Gary Indiana. Why would that be?


If I seem like I am a racist, I am being miss-understood. I could care less about the color of one’s skin. A person should not be judged by his skin color, but by his actions and the choices he makes in life. Welfare Momma’s, baby Daddy's, gang bangers, drug addicts, thieves and lying politicians. They make up the majority of the city of Gary and EC. Like I already said, "it is what it is"


My answer to the poor honest people who are stuck there is, educate your children and keep them safe. Give them every opportunity to rise above their surroundings. After all, we have a black president. Anything is achievable in this day and age.

We like to think slavery was abolished years ago. But was it really? These people who exist in these blighted communities are still being kept by their master. The master now is the government. That’s who provides food and shelter, medicine, education for the children. What kind of life are they leading? They are not free. Just think about it. Almost every major city has there section. Is this a racist comment? People won’t talk about it. Why?

[Bluefox]

Originally Posted by pcg

This is just ridiculous and I should not even be playing this race game with you. But I will. You tell me where there is an all black neighborhood with home values in the $200k to $500k range, good schools, low crime rate, and steady property values? Where? That’s the neighborhood I would choose to live in.


Black, Hispanic, Asian, Caucasian, anyone who wants to, all live in the neighborhood I live in right now. We all want the same things. That’s why we are here. It is a good safe clean community, a nice place to raise your kids. Skin color, country of origin, religion, they make no difference. It's a far cry from Gary Indiana. Why would that be?


[font=Verdana][color=black]If I seem like I am a racist, I am being miss-understood. I could care less about the color of one’s skin. A person should not be judged by his skin color, but by his actions and the choices he makes in life. Welfare Momma’s, baby Daddy's, gang bangers, drug addicts, thieves and lying politicians. They make up the majority of the city of Gary and EC. Like I already said, "it is what it is"

PCG, I think your comments are being a little misunderstood. I think what you are trying to say (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that you don't see the kind of racial segregation in many other areas of the country that you do in NWI. Is that correct?

If so, I completely agree. NWI like the rest of Chicagoland has a crime/race/class rift that in my opinion is far more pronounced than in many other areas of the country. It is not racist to acknowledge this fact at all. It simply is what it is, and of course it's not a good thing.

Unfortunately, in NWI most blacks and Hispanics tend to live in N. Lake County where there is far more crime and poverty than the rest of the region. It is the unfortunate reality that is the result of the convergence of two very important factors: white flight of the 50s-70s, and economic decline.

These two historical events resulted in numerous secondary effects that have served to perpetuate the problems of N. Lake Co. Because industry has declined and people/jobs have moved away, there is a lack of resources. There is thus less funding for things like crime prevention and education. There is little if any opportunity in these areas which further pushes people to crime. This lack of opportunity in turn invites illicit and dangerous means of obtaining resources, i.e. drugs and gangs. The neighborhoods are blighted because why would anyone who lived there care if they look nice? And note how it's not a race thing - ANYONE born and raised in such conditions would have the same plight.

All of this in turn makes the entire area an undesirable place for someone to live or invest in, and the people who live there have little if any means of improving their own quality of life. And the cycle repeats itself.

Meanwhile, the people who live in the nicer areas of the region will make false connections based on what they see even if that's not really what's rational. I feel like a latent assumption many people make is Gary = black people, Gary = crime, Gary = poverty, so black people = crime and poverty. And that's just so far from the truth and irrational (as you have recounted based on your experiences in Arizona), but it's what people SEE. They don't SEE all the reasons I just mentioned, even though those reasons are the real reasons why Gary is what Gary is. It's not just a NWI thing. It's a sociological term called structural racism....whereby the racism has literally been built into the structure of society. It is one of the more devastating effects of the racism that pervaded the earlier part of the 20th century.

Which is why what you said is completely valid. You wouldn't see the kind of desperation you see in Gary in many other parts of the country because other communities have been shaped by different factors, which results in communities that are less segregated and the structural racism is not as evident.

[Colts]

Man. White racism is just killing NWI. Some people will say it's politics, others will blame the lack of regional cooperation on the number of communities, but at the end of the day it's about race.

I'm only 31, so I can't wait to see what'll happen to Dyer, Schererville, St. John, & CP in 50 years. The Garyfication of all of Lake County is well underway, and the sad thing is that it doesn't even have to be that way.

[svillechris]

Originally Posted by Colts

Man. White racism is just killing NWI. Some people will say it's politics, others will blame the lack of regional cooperation on the number of communities, but at the end of the day it's about race.

I'm only 31, so I can't wait to see what'll happen to Dyer, Schererville, St. John, & CP in 50 years. The Garyfication of all of Lake County is well underway, and the sad thing is that it doesn't even have to be that way.

I'll bite. This is a tiring subject and one that's been debated ad nauseam on these boards. But, when provocative false statements such as this are said, I can't help but respond. Northwest Indiana is like many other areas where segregation is prevalent. Many of the middle or upper class residents are white, and much of the crime and gang-ridden areas are predominately minorities. Those are just the facts not influenced by my opinion one bit.

Many of the towns you listed above, and you can throw Munster and Valpo into that mix as well, are becoming more racially diverse. Are these towns going downhill? Most would say no and I would agree with that. Race doesn't matter when you value education, take care of your property, are not in a gang or the drug trade, and live a respectable life. I fully embrace anyone who has these same basic values as me, and I sure as hell don't care what they look like.

I ask you, what evidence or data do you have to support your claim that white racism is killing NWI?