Why no right turn on red?

[Beachbum808]

I understand how the "all way" pedestrian crossings can help in the heart of Waikiki, but there are many of the recent "No turn on red" signs at "normal" intersections that cause unnecessary delays for drivers. Ala Moana at Hobron and Ena Road backs up so far it often takes two, three lights to get through the intersection.


As usual, those that ignore the rules end up costing all of those who DO. Government cannot and should not protect every moron from themselves. I was taught at a very young age to look twice before crossing the street. Simple physics are proof enough that a 4000 pound vehicle will never stop forward motion faster than a 150 pound person. All you have to do is look first! I truly cringe when I see the elderly crossing while holding a book or umbrella up to shield their face from the sun...completely blocking any possible sight of approaching traffic, just assuming all will stop for them. Now, with the proliferation of victim's rights, too many people make no attempt...they just step off the curb with their face in their phone, ears plugged with headphones, believing that the pedestrian countdown timer means they have 15 seconds left to saunter across the street, and that there is a magical force field that will prevent any harm to them. By ignoring the countdown timer's actual intent (that you do NOT start walking once the numbers start counting down), anyone waiting to turn right gets delayed further...as do the multiple cars behind them. If the rules were followed, there might have been 6 - 8 -10 cars that could have proceeded on their way, but instead only one or two make the light, with the rest waiting for the entire cycle again. If you are walking anyway, why must YOU be in such a hurry to break the rules and delay the law abiding drivers?


The new speed humps are another failure. Drivers, yes, including myself, are more focused on locating the humps to adequately slow for them, than actually looking for pedestrians about to cross them, especially in congested traffic. The signage for them is often "lost" in the backdrop of other signage, trees, light poles, vertical lane markers to navigate, and other roadside elements.



And, what happens when a drunk driver DOES hit one of those at about 60 MPH and goes flying into oncoming traffic, or a house near the roadway, or an innocent jogger? Is that the desired outcome?

[prospectheightsresident]

Originally Posted by Beachbum808

I understand how the "all way" pedestrian crossings can help in the heart of Waikiki, but there are many of the recent "No turn on red" signs at "normal" intersections that cause unnecessary delays for drivers. Ala Moana at Hobron and Ena Road backs up so far it often takes two, three lights to get through the intersection.


As usual, those that ignore the rules end up costing all of those who DO. Government cannot and should not protect every moron from themselves. I was taught at a very young age to look twice before crossing the street. Simple physics are proof enough that a 4000 pound vehicle will never stop forward motion faster than a 150 pound person. All you have to do is look first! I truly cringe when I see the elderly crossing while holding a book or umbrella up to shield their face from the sun...completely blocking any possible sight of approaching traffic, just assuming all will stop for them. Now, with the proliferation of victim's rights, too many people make no attempt...they just step off the curb with their face in their phone, ears plugged with headphones, believing that the pedestrian countdown timer means they have 15 seconds left to saunter across the street, and that there is a magical force field that will prevent any harm to them. By ignoring the countdown timer's actual intent (that you do NOT start walking once the numbers start counting down), anyone waiting to turn right gets delayed further...as do the multiple cars behind them. If the rules were followed, there might have been 6 - 8 -10 cars that could have proceeded on their way, but instead only one or two make the light, with the rest waiting for the entire cycle again. If you are walking anyway, why must YOU be in such a hurry to break the rules and delay the law abiding drivers?


The new speed humps are another failure. Drivers, yes, including myself, are more focused on locating the humps to adequately slow for them, than actually looking for pedestrians about to cross them, especially in congested traffic. The signage for them is often "lost" in the backdrop of other signage, trees, light poles, vertical lane markers to navigate, and other roadside elements.



And, what happens when a drunk driver DOES hit one of those at about 60 MPH and goes flying into oncoming traffic, or a house near the roadway, or an innocent jogger? Is that the desired outcome?

See, that's one where I can understand. I was over there in January (went to the ABC store before eating at the 100 Sails restaurant). There were large crowds trying to cross consistently during the early evening hours. Allowing vehicles to make red turns on red didn't make sense there, IMO and was unnecessarily dangerous.

It's one thing to say that people should be aware of their surroundings, but I've found that allowing right turns on red at busy intersections means that there's almost always a car encroaching into the crosswalk when people are trying to cross at the busiest hours.

Now, it's true that even the most touristy intersections won't be busy 24/7, which is why I'd be in favor of a "no right on red" between X and Y hours. Another solution could be to increase the time that the light is green for turns during certain hours.

[pj737]

While I agree there are some unnecessary no right on red intersections, I don't think Hobron/Ala Moana is one of them. As noted in this thread, you can't allow a right turn on red with an all-way crosswalk. I'm certain this is a state mandated requirement.

While I drive through that area from time to time and have been stuck in the traffic that backs up on Hobron, it also backed up years ago when right on red was permitted and no all way ped crossing existed. It might be a little worse now but traffic has always backed up on Hobron during busy hours. It's nothing new. If anything the worsening traffic is more a byproduct of increased foot traffic and increased housing units/higher occupancy hotels on and around Hobron. As noted in my previous post, the addition of a right green arrow will help move traffic along Hobron faster when they have right of way. I see drivers hesitating to move at a decent clip.

I also think the all-way ped crossing at Ena and Ala Moana is fantastic. It cuts the crossing time in half and the collision risk of cars and pedestrians by half for any pedestrians that need ls to cross two streets to get to their destination. This safety fact cannot be ignored.

I feel that over time more and more focus will be placed on the safety of cyclists and pedestrians. This is a very positive evolution of society but we'll always have those that get upset because they don't like change. Humans are less attentive to focusing on their surroundings now. New cars have these ridiculous all-screen interfaces that require eyes off the road for simple tasks like stereo or HVAC control. What was once easy to do by muscle memory (so no eyes off road) now requires one to fiddle with a tactile-less screen while eyes are not actually watching the road...and pedestrians/cyclists. All in the name of entertaining low-IQ humans that want the oohh and aaaah of big screens. Then of course we're all buried in our phones on top of it all. As we regress from a less driver- attentive world, safety measures for pedestrians and cyclists will skyrocket. Bottom line is statistics show humans will lose a fight with a car exactly 100% of the time so the greater responsibility always lies with the driver. Be prepared to deal with many more pedestrian friendly initiatives over the coming years.

[pj737]

Looks like they are adding a second right turn lane off Hobron onto Ala Moana by allowing the left lane to also turn right. This should help. Changes being made are noted in the Star Advertiser this morning -


>> Allowing right turns from both lanes (on green). This “will allow additional clearance for vehicles from southbound Hobron Lane onto westbound Ala Moana Boulevard,” the DOT said. The “no right turn on red” restriction will remain in place.

>> Extending the peak-hours tow-away zone about 100 feet to the driveway of the parking lot on the right side of Hobron Lane. Peak hours are Monday through Friday from 6:30 to 8:30 a.m. and 3:30 to 6:30 p.m., when vehicles parked in the expanded zone will be towed

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by pj737

Looks like they are adding a second right turn lane off Hobron onto Ala Moana by allowing the left lane to also turn right. This should help. Changes being made are noted in the Star Advertiser this morning -


>> Allowing right turns from both lanes (on green). This “will allow additional clearance for vehicles from southbound Hobron Lane onto westbound Ala Moana Boulevard,” the DOT said. The “no right turn on red” restriction will remain in place.

>> Extending the peak-hours tow-away zone about 100 feet to the driveway of the parking lot on the right side of Hobron Lane. Peak hours are Monday through Friday from 6:30 to 8:30 a.m. and 3:30 to 6:30 p.m., when vehicles parked in the expanded zone will be towed

Hobron/Ala Moana is definitely a huge problem - at least they recognize the need to try something.

Vegas completely solved the high traffic/high pedestrian issue with tourists - overhead pedestrian bridges. They should have put them in select areas on the Pali at the Bus stops and select intersections in Waikiki. I'm not aware of any traffic/pedestrian fatalities on pedestrian bridges.