2nd Tier Cities: Toledo, Dayton, Akron, Canton, Youngstown (Oregon, Maumee: hotel, house)

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by MetroDaytonMan

Dayton first of all I believe is a first tier city. Dayton has not merged with Cincinnati. I believe they never will, there 55 miles apart They are completely different and separate city's. They have different TV markets. Besides that though, Dayton offers more big city life than Toledo and Akron. Dayton also has the largest metro and the largest employer, Wright Patterson Air Force Base. With Dayton's rich aviation heritage, and many patents created in the city by countless inventors, Dayton is the true winner in this contest.

The Air Force is just a federally imposed presence. Not something to brag about.

Have you been to Akron? Much better than Dayton. Things are turning around there.

I'm sorry, but to assert that these cities are in the same tier as Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Columbus is a bit ridiculous.

[North 42]

Delusions of grandeur!

[ohio_peasant]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

The Air Force is just a federally imposed presence. Not something to brag about.

Have you been to Akron? Much better than Dayton. Things are turning around there.

I'm sorry, but to assert that these cities are in the same tier as Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Columbus is a bit ridiculous.

Stridently vehement boosterism is, I think, misplaced. Nevertheless, the gentleman has a point: federal investment is a tremendous boon for otherwise vulnerable communities. It provides well-paying jobs, attracting professionals, stimulating the local universities and tech-base, and compensating to some extent for exit of traditional industries (automotive, appliances, electronics, and so forth). To rely on one massive federal employer is deeply unfortunate. But it offers a stability that's otherwise hard to replicate.

[residinghere2007]

Originally Posted by MetroDaytonMan

Dayton first of all I believe is a first tier city. Dayton has not merged with Cincinnati. I believe they never will, there 55 miles apart They are completely different and separate city's. They have different TV markets. Besides that though, Dayton offers more big city life than Toledo and Akron. Dayton also has the largest metro and the largest employer, Wright Patterson Air Force Base. With Dayton's rich aviation heritage, and many patents created in the city by countless inventors, Dayton is the true winner in this contest.

I actually like Dayton but I don't think it is a 1st tier city in Ohio. And it is actually very similar to Toledo and Akron IMO.

Nearly all of Ohio's 2nd tier cities offer some sort of "big city" life but compared to the 1st tier cities already described, the 2nd tiers are just not as economically prominent in the state anymore. At one time they were, which is why all of them have a wide degree of urbanized, city amenities.

[ohio_peasant]

Originally Posted by residinghere2007

...Nearly all of Ohio's 2nd tier cities offer some sort of "big city" life but compared to the 1st tier cities already described, the 2nd tiers are just not as economically prominent in the state anymore. At one time they were, which is why all of them have a wide degree of urbanized, city amenities.

Indeed. Dayton was a city of national prominence 100 years ago. It was a thriving bastion of engineering-research, manufacturing, business. But it started declining a full generation before the oft-noted decline of the Rust Belt. Dayton followed a trajectory much akin to that of Detroit - for essentially the same reasons.

It's one thing for a place of secondary significance to remain thus mired. Midsized cities have their own charms. Growth is not essential for securing quality of life. The tragedy is when a once-primary city becomes secondary. For a place like Dayton, the objective of growth wouldn't be to supersede the 3-C's, but to rekindle some of its erstwhile prosperity.

[SWOH]

If Dayton keeps on its current track and manages itself right, it could become really cool for its size, like Grand Rapids. I don't think Dayton needs to or should go through massive sprawl growth, one of its greatest assets is quick access to the countryside if you want to go to it (or for that matter a different city, 3 metros of 2 mil+ are with a 2-hr drive). What Dayton needs to do is real rain and focus on its character and be the best Dayton it can be. Not the best Phoenix, Atlanta, or Detroit.

Dayton is pretty great right now, and to refute BJimmy94, Dayton has mounted an impressive turnaround in recent years and is a great place to be. Just like Akron is too. Or Toledo.

And the city is building in its heritage. And being authentic to itself. The end result should be like Bloomington or Ann Arbor or Austin in a sense, Dayron should become a place that is uniquely Dayton and defies categorization. But yet retains openness, prosperity, and a welcoming atmosphere. And right now it's on that track.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by SWOH

Dayton is pretty great right now, and to refute BJimmy94, Dayton has mounted an impressive turnaround in recent years and is a great place to be. Just like Akron is too. Or Toledo.

This doesn't refute me at all. I just said Akron is much better. Dayton, Akron, Canton, Youngstown, etc. are still not even close to the same level as the three C's. Doesn't mean they can't be fine places to live, and fun places to be, but they are a different category.

[Dayton Sux]

This doesn't refute me at all. I just said Akron is much better

Well, the northern part of Summit County is a suburban edge city of Cleveland, sort like the southern parts of Warren County next to Cincy. So--on paper--the Akron metro area is doing pretty good.


I think its a good thing for Akron that it didn't become a "Son of Youngstown" urban decline story, since both were pretty much one-industry towns that lost their industry.


Pretty interesting comparing these 2nd tier cities. I guess Youngstown still falls in this category.


I think for comparison purposes, Toledo <---> Dayton and Akron <---> Youngstown. Tho Toledo has much more of that ethnic/cultural diversity thing you see in Great Lakes cities vs Dayton.

[Rebek56]

Originally Posted by Mplsite

I've only been to Toledo and Dayton and never had much interest in Ohio's 2nd tier cities: none can compare with the likes of Boulder, Madison, or Duluth which have far more than just a handful or so of walkable urban blocks. Old Orchard in Toledo was citied as "walkable" when all there is to walk to are a couple of stripmall clusters on the northern end of the neighborhood; hey, a Starbucks! .

Old thread that I just wandered back to--life intervenes.
Obviously, "walkable" means different things to different people. For us, within a mile (my comfort-for-errands zone) were three grocery stores of different types, the Westgate farmers market, a public library, the university and its offerings, enough restaurants for cooking to be optional (still miss JoJo's Pizza and Tiger's Lebanese Deli), and Rhodes Produce market. And of course the neighborhood itself was gorgeous and like walking in a park. No argument that the commercial development lacks charm--who would want a sidewalk cafe on Monroe or Secor?

[bigdipper80]

If there's one thing Dayton beats the other 2nd-tier cities on, it's housing stock. Akron has some good homes out in its suburbs, but most of the city itself is most of the same generic steel-mill housing that you see all over Cleveland and Youngstown. That's not to say that they're necessarily of poor craftsmanship or anything, and many of them have some great woodworking inside, but Akron's neighborhoods, architectural-wise, are pretty same-y. Dayton is pretty varied for a city of its size, with a lot of colorful wood and brick vernacular homes that have more in common with Columbus' Victorian and German Villages. Everyone lumps Cin-Day as a region, but frankly Dayton has always reminded me more of Columbus than of Cincinnati. One thing that Akron has going for it is that I wouldn't really call any area in Akron particularly "ghetto". Dayton has some remarkably impoverished and bombed-out Detroit-esque neighborhoods, while most of Akron is stable despite the relative decline due to the shift in economy. It can't really be understated how hard Dayton was hit when it lost NCR and Delphi/GM. That said, Dayton's core neighborhoods have improved tremendously over the past decade, and it's not all "just the Oregon District" any more. I've been very pleased with the growth that I've seen since I moved here a year ago.