[StillwaterTownie]

Originally Posted by nightbird47

Still hearing about maybe a Costco opening here????? Does this mean a compromise on the laws about alchol which I hear is one problem with a number of stores. Please bring on Trader Joes!

No, changing or abolishing Oklahoma's ridiculous anti alcohol laws will likely have to be done by a vote of the people. Probably one reason the people are seldom asked to do that is due to the fear the people will vote to approve.

[dvxhd]

Originally Posted by Howest2008

Christians don't live under OLD TESTAMENT LAW but New Testament Rules for Marriage
and Christian Faith which is One Man and One Wo(Man) Adam and Eve ( Not ) Adam and Steve.

The JEW'S don't even live under the OLD TESTAMENT these days they couldn't exist in any
Modern Society with the Laws Of The OLD TESTAMENT.

No, Christian fundamentalists (present company included) live in the Dark Ages: a time when highly corrupt popes made decrees, some of which still exist. And yawn, yawn, yawn at that Adam and Steve remark. Jesus, can't you guys come up with something more original than that? The Bible has a lot of imagination in it-- sea monsters, zombies, mythic themes, demons, Armageddon-- I think you guys are capable of something less trite.

Regardless, that didn't enlighten me. Show me where in the Bible it forbids same sex marriage and I'll keep my peace. Also, that Old Testament remark you made would throw the Leviticus 20:13 argument right out the window... just sayin'. I'm all ears.

Originally Posted by nightbird47

I feel if christans do not wish to wed gay couples in their churches, fine with me. But that is about it. Marriage is not a moral/religious state, but a LEGAL one, defining stated legal rights. If two people of adult age wish to make this bond then who should say no? You can believe whatever you want IN your religion, but cannot make others of other views bow down to your brand of faith/religion/rules. HUMAN rights triumph sectarian rules.

That's a big argument for same sex marriage, as churches don't have to perform weddings there. I've known people who have been married on beaches, at their homes, in parks, at city hall, etc. so I don't understand the argument that marriages aren't valid if not done in churches. To the government, all that matters is that piece of paper.

Personally, I think if states enact same sex marriage bans, then childless GLBT people should have the option to pay less taxes going toward anything that can come of marriage, including education, social services and foster care. Married couples should have to shoulder that burden if they're supplying the bulk of new people in the world. Is it really fair to deny a segment of the population a right, but still make them pay for other people's children?

[swake]

Originally Posted by dvxhd

That's a big argument for same sex marriage, as churches don't have to perform weddings there. I've known people who have been married on beaches, at their homes, in parks, at city hall, etc. so I don't understand the argument that marriages aren't valid if not done in churches.

My Church will marry gay people, no problem. The second Minister is herself gay.

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim

I think the future is bright for Oklahoma, though. Thousands of fed-up Californians who respect Oklahoma's historic culture may soon end up there as refugees. California's great conservative Central Valley has long had a strong Okie influence, and you can hear shades of the accent in our smaller cities and rural areas. (Merle Haggard lives only about an hour from here ...). CA politics and a lousy economy are pushing conservatives out of the state. At the same time, I suspect there will soon be a reverse migration of assorted liberals from red states to California and the east coast. It will all sort itself out.

Boy, I hope not.

I'm all for heavily taxing transplants from out of the South-Central region. It will change our culture (which makes our state great/unique) to open the floodgates.

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by dvxhd

Marriage isn't impossible between people of the same sex, as it's a sociocultural construct. People invented it and can change it. If you want to go strictly by the Biblical definition, don't forget the undying Word of God in all definitions of marriage:

Genesis 20:12 (And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.)

Deuteronomy 22:13-21 (If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her and give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: and the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her; and, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him; and they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the ***** in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.)

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.)

1 Chronicles 2:35-36 (Now Sheshan had no sons, but daughters. And Sheshan had a servant, an Egyptian, whose name was Jarha. And Sheshan gave his daughter to Jarha his servant to wife; and she bare him Attai.)

1 Chronicles 3:1-9 (List of David's eight wives, AND "These were all the sons of David, beside the sons of the concubines, and Tamar their sister." the concubines not named.)

Matthew 19:28-29 (And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.)

1 Kings 11:1-3 (But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites... And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.)

Genesis 4 (Not outright said, but with Adam, Cain, Abel and Eve, the only female... where did the future generations come from? Gross.)

Sorry... I found quite a few definitions of marriage and what is acceptable, but was having some difficulty finding anything in the Bible about same-sex marriage. Enlighten me.

The words of Jesus in Matthew 19 are clear enough.

BTW, and for what it's worth, he didn't mention the Bible/Christianity. You did. These comments should be moved to the Religion forum. Just sayin'.

[dvxhd]

Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008

The words of Jesus in Matthew 19 are clear enough.

BTW, and for what it's worth, he didn't mention the Bible/Christianity. You did. These comments should be moved to the Religion forum. Just sayin'.

He didn't?

Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim

I understand that Tulsa has a thriving Vietnamese community. That's one reason I'm looking at the city. I have good friends and relatives from Mexico, SE Asia, and even Africa. There's nothing immoral or deviant about being an immigrant or speaking a language other than English.

We're not looking for a white conservative wonderland, not at all. Just a friendly place where ordinary Christian values are publicly respected, economic life isn't taxed and regulated to death, and deviant lifestyles aren't celebrated as healthy and forced on schoolchildren.

Just sayin'...

Better luck next time.

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by dvxhd

He didn't?



Just sayin'...

Better luck next time.

Specifically, you quoted a plethora of verses from the Bible, the majority of which are vastly out of context and misappropriated to this topic. He did not quote verses from Scripture.

Thanks for the luck, Pardner. I'm guessing you didn't mean it in goodwill but I'll receive it with a smile anyway. The Okie Way.

Blessings! (and I mean it)

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim

This is all rather depressing. I thought OK was safe from this creeping madness.

Isn't one California enough?

Does the Cherokee Nation allow this too?

Well, us Choctaws always thought those Cherokees had a touch of sugar in their tank anyway.

Where's RB when I need him?

[okie1962]

Originally Posted by dvxhd

He didn't?



Just sayin'...

Better luck next time.

[dvxhd]

Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008

Specifically, you quoted a plethora of verses from the Bible, the majority of which are vastly out of context and misappropriated to this topic. He did not quote verses from Scripture.

Thanks for the luck, Pardner. I'm guessing you didn't mean it in goodwill but I'll receive it with a smile anyway.

Blessings! (and I mean it)

A plethora of Bible verses that talk about marriage and acceptable practices therein... from incest, to rape, to polygamy, to forsaking your own family and beyond. Those weren't out of context at all either. Go back and read them, and tell me how you can make any of those sound... well, reflective of contemporary life. Go ahead and get verses before and after it.

Hey, if you want to waste Sunday mornings listening to a guy pick a few verses out here and there and give you his interpretation of it while you nod as he pulls your puppet strings and money from your wallet, more power to you. If you want to believe your faith is right while that of billions of other people is wrong, fine. Just keep your Christ out of law when it's regarding something totally innocuous, that will have no real effect on your life... well, except for maybe the tax revenue and business boost same sex marriages would throw into the economy.