SB270 aka prop 67 statewide single use bag ordinance in Orange County, Annoyed by it? (San Diego: 2013, buy)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I understand that current political sentiment is to completely gut any kind of legislation that could possibly help the environment and then to foul up that environment as quickly as we can. Filth, pollution, toxic waste, and greenhouse gases are all in like they have never been before; I'm even considering dumping lead in the rivers and lakes just to show my patriotism.
Naturally, the bag law runs counter to the tenor of the times. We should be feeding plastic bags to seal pups, not banning them. I get that.
However, the question was if I find the ban annoying. Frankly, I don't think I have spent more than five seconds even thinking about it at all. I just tell the cashier "I'd like a bag with that" before she finishes ringing me up. If it is a paper bag, I hold it from the bottom so it won't rip. These little adjustments to life seem to have solved all my anguish over losing thousands of plastic bags annually that I used to receive but never needed.
I don't think we can reverse this law quickly, but if we hurry, maybe we can destroy the environment quickly and permanently enough that we won't even have to worry about bags or cleanliness ever again. We can always hope...
Its all politics they don't care about the truth or unintended consequences of any actions they take all they care is what is politically right. They will remain blind to reality no matter what. Sadly policy making hardly make any sense these days.
The ban has raised a lot of red flags for those who take a step back and look at the scientific reality of it. There are just so many unintended consequences including a great increase in other types of non affect plastic bags. Now more than four times as much plastic end up in the ocean where there are sea lions. Ever since November shoulders and grassy strips of the 5, 405, 57 and 91 are piling up with spilled plastic litter from garbage trucks as people still get so much other plastics from the stores but the bag to tie up these garbage from flying away are all of a sudden far less available. I lived in the Bay Area and experienced it first hand when cities there started to jump on the ban and fee wagon. Google street view provides ample evidence that roadbeds ever since implementation are much more trash ridden than before. SFDFW also did a waste audit over a number of years which clearly showed a sharp increase of other plastic garbage since their ban started in 2007. Toronto the same.
When I moved to SoCal I was surprised that while its equally as dense in population and diverse as well but the freeways appears almost plastic and other litter free compared to the Bay Area yet hardly any cities in restrict plastic grocery bags. Though all that started to change after last November. And where do you think so many plastic grocery bags in major grocers went, to the landfill of course? Unless the grocers is one of those smaller ones that allows their supply to be depleted by customers before implementing which was perfectly legal as the law does not take effect until December 16.
Just asking prior to this mandatory charge for bag fad legislation that went around the cities and now statewide when is the last time we had a similar law that required a private business to charge for an item that they formally included with purchase that is not a tax and goes straight into their pockets?
The truth is these laws completely lacks any accountability whatsoever it was written intentionally to circumnavigate the scrutiny that government taxes receive in this state under the constitution. And an unprecedented abuse of power to legislate to violate anti trust laws.
At least the new soda taxes are still taxes that still need to go through due process and approved by 2/3 majority vote.
If prop 65 passes we would not be paying for bags as the fee would require the 2/3 majority vote which is highly unlikely to happen given that prop 67 only passed by 2%. And soda taxes are up to the store to decide how to pass unto the customers. I.e in a soda in Berkeley, CA has the soda tax which has the tax is not a penny higher than a soda in Concord, CA which has no soda tax and the customer just pays the normal soda price and the 9% sales tax.
Thats why these pro banners are madly against prop 65 even though the money goes into an environmental fund. The scheme is only disguised to "save the environment" but its actually corruption to get around due process. Its scary precedent as this trend of corruption is being pushed in such a widespread manner these days all in disguise of saving the environment.
Which every real scientific data to date has disagreed.
Sadly Prop 65 was rejected even in OC as anti tax people saw it as another form of taxation.
Those who will think this charging scheme would make things cleaner, do me a favor and head up to the SF Bay Area. Travel the freeways, go to SF and Oakland, ride BART or Amtrak capital corridor, and look out the windows. Use your nose, You will regret it. The worst thing is the whole state would head in this direction in a matter of years. This is our future.
I just hope the GOP would take over california again and reverse this. Or South California can become its own state and repeal this just like Arizona does. Bans and fees are forbidden in our eastern neighbor Arizona. But even in crowded Phoenix I see not a piece of plastic along side any roads or freeways or anywhere else for that matter Arizona is overall squeaky clean.
Last edited by citizensadvocate; 04-07-2017 at 12:21 AM..
I will still get bags from the store, I prefer stores that have thicker versions of plastic bags that resemble the old bags they always used and not the ones with the round handle on top.
Otherwise I will still need to buy plastics bags for the many household purposes I used store bags for garbage containment being only one of them. Its not the price of bags I an annoyed of but its the junk science and unprecedented abuse of power just to coerce people to appear to live what radicals think is a "green" lifestyle.
Its not nothing. You will regret it soon. And its not the minor cost of bags either. Just go to the Bay Area and look out the window of your car or BART.
I am surprised Orange County Forum is much less vocal on this compared to the San Diego and LA citydata forums on this even though Orange County had been the most vocal in voting against this and fought back against local bans both existing and proposed. Look at what happened in Huntington Beach.
too much ado about nothing. just bring a box in your car and you don't have to buy plastic bags
there is a bigger tax that we should worry about and that is the new $0.12 or is it $0.18/gal tax
for my family that is $5+ per week + additional registration fee
This is also a matter to discuss as well.
The big difference is even though California has a bad record of mishandling where the tax money should go and continues to raise taxes. The due process California had to go through for new taxes are actuallly very high. Requiring 2/3
But the bag fee skips such due process by having stores act as agents and pocket it as profits. If the state is able to force stores to charge for their items and pocket it What's stopping it from requiring gas stations charge the new tax but pocket it as a fee to avoid the constitutional process of approving a new tax in this state. They can then collect the fee from gas stations from some other indirect means.
Now CA gas stations are required to offer air and water free to gasoline customers but can they reverse the policy to require gas stations charge a minimum fee for air and water just like they require stores to charge for bags?
The biggest boon to the ban on plastic bags is aiding shoplifters. They go through the store, pick out a few expensive items, then walk out carrying the merchandise while holding a receipt they pulled out of the trash. Unlike Costco, there is no store employee or security checking each customer as they exit the store. A lot of businesses are getting cleaned out by these thieves.
Shoplifting is a major issue all over the world where politicians fall for this dumb trend. Many stores in the Bay Area within cities that passed such ordinances since 2012 have to install many extra barriers and security measures to combat shoplifting.
Cities in Orange County and Inland cities in most of SoCal like El Cajon would never want this kind of ordinance within their cities unlike cities along the left coast ran by brainwashed hippy council members until the state took away their choice by force.
The State ordinance is masterminded to only include cities without their own ordinance or chose to not pass such an ordinance to force them to jump on the banwagon. It does not affect cities with an existing bag oridinance prior to September 2014. Even if it does not include a paper bag fee. So a city with no paper bag fee such as Manhatton Beach, and Malibu is grandfathered in and is not required to charge as of today however Huntington Beach which defeated a city ordinance as well as other orange county cities that rejected such ordinances in the past are now required to comply with SB270 including charging for not just paper but any other type of bag that is not banned.
Its very hard to believe the votes of 15% of the population of a state of 40 million people could take away the choice over 80% of shoppers made everyday at the grocery store all these years. So I guess of the 80% of shoppers who voted at the checkout counter only 14% of this population voted in November election. Thats sad.
Its more about the concept than the fee itself. When is the last time cities or the state passed a similar measure requiring stores to charge and pocket a fee to get around the due process for a new tax? And to stifle competition and anti trust legislation? Turning corporate stores into their agents to keep the people in line. Kind of like the Airline industry nowadays.
What idea can they think of next, maybe if the gas tax does not go through they will think of a new measure for gas stations to charge a fee that is equivalent to the tax and pocket it initially. And banning buy one get one free sales?
The state is considering banning straws too. Though all this patch work of inconvienencing people don't do anything for the environment in fact it severely increased plastic litter from unbagged plastic wrappers in garbage flying when collected. Bin liners coming untied etc.
Apparently this is a power trip by the 15% who believe we don't like the choices your making so we have to forcefully make you choose our way. And to punish cities that choose not to have such a local ordinance.
fyi Dana point is not affected by the fee portion of the SB270 because they passed one without a fee 2013. Yet all those other cities such as Laguna Niguel who said no to this measure end up screwed. Theoretically any ordinances passed after september of 2014 is verboton under SB270 as it becomes a state matter but knowing out this state works they would not go after them as they couldn't care less if a city passed a ban in good faith that the state ban would be voted down?
In other words Dana Point's businesses are allowed to continue to offer free paper and other non banned bags for free as its ordinance passed before SB270 was signed by the governor was grandfathered in howeverbusinesses in Dana point's neighbors San Clemente, Laguna Niguel, both turned down local ban proposals and Laguna Niguel at least also voted to oppose CaliforniaSB270 are now forced to charge for non prohibited bags as they are now subject to SB270 just as with Huntington Beach who is still dealing with the law suit filed by those enviro nuts who claimed their city has no rights to appeal the ban.
Alas Orange County cities did not pass what this city in NorCal did back in August 2014 Is one small California city exempt from the state
The city of Lincoln's no bag ban ordinance was grandfathered in because it was passed before September of 2014.
The state don't like it but. Though the state would be hypocrite if they go over this while ignoring nine cities that illegally passed their own ordinances on this after September 2014. Del Mar being one of them. SB270 clearly states cities and counties are not to draft or change an ordinance after that date.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
