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There is zero historical evidence of any kind that Wicca traces back farther than 1950. Not one single scrap of documentation proving otherwise, including supposed grimoires predating that date, has ever been produced. Did people study and practice herbalism prior to 1950? Certainly. Did some keep notes or write books about it? Certainly. Herbalism is not a religion. Were they grimoires about Wiccan religious practices and rituals? No. If you have such documentation, please let me know, because I know of an Oxford historian who would love to see it.
There is zero historical evidence of any kind that Wicca traces back farther than 1950. Not one single scrap of documentation proving otherwise, including supposed grimoires predating that date, has ever been produced. Did people study and practice herbalism prior to 1950? Certainly. Did some keep notes or write books about it? Certainly. Herbalism is not a religion. Were they grimoires about Wiccan religious practices and rituals? No. If you have such documentation, please let me know, because I know of an Oxford historian who would love to see it.
All I can tell you is that my Great-Grand Mother was a "white witch" as some would call her nowadays ( she just called herself a "wise woman", follower of the old ways), as well as a herbalist, and bone setter and followed traditions passed on to her for many, many generations. She had her own book full of herbal lore and yes religious rituals.
Sadly she never taught me any of it as she knew how my parents felt about it ( violently opposed to it, they thought she was virtually certifiable !) .
I have no idea what happened to all her books ( hers and her mother's/ grand-mother's/ great grand mother's etc before that ...).
She had to pretend all her life that she was a Catholic as it was seen as being blasphemous to "come out" so to speak.
I wish I could help you as I would love to help that Oxford Historian too . She was an amazing woman and was quite bemused by the resurgence of New Age philosophies as some she found just plain"silly" ( I quote ) and bizarrely "trendy".
All I know is the rituals and lore she followed were centuries old and had been passed from generation to generation through the matrilineal lines. It had nothing to do with modern Wicca as it is now called, she just called it "the Old Religion" . She did worship a dual divinity, an earth Mother primarily though and believed that Nature itself was the true face of divinity. Each season was welcomed with a different ritual, and she did practice white magic ( not her own terms , she used to hate that word, to her they were just "charms" and "wishes").
I actually got the impression that the Old Religion was a very personal philosophy coupled with ancient rituals and was told that the Old Believers were very secretive . I cannot imagine any of them seeking publicity in any way shape of form from what I gathered from her.
Her Grimoire used to fascinate me , a very old book , full of
herbal drawings, strange illustrations and "recipes" for Charms and incantations. It was really battered and always wrapped in a cloth. She used to keep it under her bed ( same with her money as she didn't trust banks!) as it was too big to fit most places. I am not saying it was a grimoire in the sense of the "charmed" TV programme but bear in mind that in French a grimoire sometimes only means a very old book not just some kind of Wicca repository for magical lore. And she was French.
I come from Brittany and I know some so called Catholics still follow remnants of the old Celtic ways. Christianity has not managed to erase all the spiritual memory of a race simply because of a victory of numbers a couple of a thousand years ago.
Paganism runs much deeper than people believe. In its modern and trendy form , yes it pretty much was an invention from the overworked imagination of some neo-Celticists in the 19 th century, but its pure form is I believe still practised by very quiet and very secretive people.
I am sad that when my great-grand mother died all this was lost with her ( I assume my family will have thrown everything away). She truly was an exceptional woman and I would have loved to write her biography.
I don't believe in Paganism any more than I believe in other religion but anthropologically speaking I do find it fascinating.
Also I learnt from my great grand mother valuable things such as tolerance and kindness towards both Humans and Animals/Nature. A true respect for the world we live in.
That to me is her true legacy.
Mooseketeer,
Without doubt, paganism is ancient. My point is that despite exhaustive attempts to do so, no one has discovered a single grimoire or any other documentation that traces Wicca directly back to an earlier pagan belief system. Ronald Hutton, the Oxford historian, has, on the other hand, very carefully traced (and documented) the origins of Wicca to other sources such as the Golden Dawn, the Masons (neither of which are even pagan), the Woodcrafters Movement (an English "get back to nature" movement-decidedly not pagan) and Eastern Mystery Schools. Eastern Mystery Religions were pagan, but about the only thing Wicca took from them was the notion of a mystery school and once Wicca fell into the hands of the Americans, even that disappeared. Golden Dawn ritual format came from the Masons and Wiccan ritual format came from both. It's important to note that the four corners/four directions used by Wicca was not used by earlier pagans. Certainly, there were herbalists, midwives, and "wise" persons who used folk magic and trickery to earn a living and there may be documents linking to them. But incantations and spells are not a religion and no document has ever been found the predates 1950 or so that contains the primary elements of Wicca as conceived by Gerald Gardner. Traditional witchcraft, for example, was a craft and not a religion. Nevertheless, if I were you, I'd conduct an exhaustive search for those old books (hard to believe someone would have thrown out something so precious to your grandmother. They're probably stuffed in a trunk in an attic). I think you would love to read Ronald Hutton, especially his "Triumph of the Moon" and "Witches, Druids and King Arthur". He's a Druid, by the way, and not at all anti-pagan but he's a true scholar.
The Spiral Dance by Starhawk is the only book I know that is revered enough to be called a bible of wiccans. Anything by Starhawk is great. She is also great when it comes to anything political. I could see her running for office one day, I wish she would.
There is zero historical evidence of any kind that Wicca traces back farther than 1950. Not one single scrap of documentation proving otherwise, including supposed grimoires predating that date, has ever been produced. Did people study and practice herbalism prior to 1950? Certainly. Did some keep notes or write books about it? Certainly. Herbalism is not a religion. Were they grimoires about Wiccan religious practices and rituals? No. If you have such documentation, please let me know, because I know of an Oxford historian who would love to see it.
Umm, book burnings, witch burnings, book burnings, witch hangings, book burnings, witch burnings...ad nauseum blah blah blah.....did I mention the BOOK BURNINGS?
Thanks Jazzed, Just trying to gain some quick understanding. I don't wish to join nor spend huge amounts of time on learning about it. Seems that a lot of people consider themselves Pagans and Wiccans, so I wonder what its about. I try to respect all beliefs, but it helps to know the basics of them.
There are negative religions out there like the murderous "Thugee cult" of India, which I have no respect for.
Wicca just banned me---I also just read the History of Thuggee!!!
I had a fear---short lasting----that the witches of Wicca, after banning me, would curse me also
Superstition/ spirit/ The infinite progression of life made one in this, our shared conscious thought!!!!!
and stiil our shared conscious thought!!! And, and, and that shared dance of consciousness?
LOL-----------We occupy this life?
so occupy!!! cheers Stu
Stu-banned you from what? Earth? Thats exactly why organized religions suck various diseased body parts. You dont need one friggin person to help or assist you with your spiritual needs.
Mooseketeer,
Without doubt, paganism is ancient. My point is that despite exhaustive attempts to do so, no one has discovered a single grimoire or any other documentation that traces Wicca directly back to an earlier pagan belief system. Ronald Hutton, the Oxford historian, has, on the other hand, very carefully traced (and documented) the origins of Wicca to other sources such as the Golden Dawn, the Masons (neither of which are even pagan), the Woodcrafters Movement (an English "get back to nature" movement-decidedly not pagan) and Eastern Mystery Schools. Eastern Mystery Religions were pagan, but about the only thing Wicca took from them was the notion of a mystery school and once Wicca fell into the hands of the Americans, even that disappeared. Golden Dawn ritual format came from the Masons and Wiccan ritual format came from both. It's important to note that the four corners/four directions used by Wicca was not used by earlier pagans. Certainly, there were herbalists, midwives, and "wise" persons who used folk magic and trickery to earn a living and there may be documents linking to them. But incantations and spells are not a religion and no document has ever been found the predates 1950 or so that contains the primary elements of Wicca as conceived by Gerald Gardner. Traditional witchcraft, for example, was a craft and not a religion. Nevertheless, if I were you, I'd conduct an exhaustive search for those old books (hard to believe someone would have thrown out something so precious to your grandmother. They're probably stuffed in a trunk in an attic). I think you would love to read Ronald Hutton, especially his "Triumph of the Moon" and "Witches, Druids and King Arthur". He's a Druid, by the way, and not at all anti-pagan but he's a true scholar.
I can guarantee you those books will have been destroyed.
My family thought my great-grand mother was nuts ! And maybe she was though to me she was just a very nice and fascinating lady...
The best way to describe my grand-mother's religion was animist I suppose with a mother goddess figure but with a duality of male and female. She also believed in the divinity of Nature .
As I said all I know is what she told me and as far as I am aware her mother/ grand-mother/ great/grand-mother etc... all followed the same .
Though she practised charms and incantations, she also practised religious rituals to the moon, and the earth.
I guess they would be called shamanic rituals nowadays.
It has always been my understanding Anthropologically that most Animist religions and Shamanic rituals all over the world are incredibly similar in many respects so I cannot see why the "Old Religion" as she called it would have disappeared.
Oral tradition is mainly how these beliefs and rituals are passed down from generation to generation . I would have thought any books would have been destroyed at some point for those few believers who had them. Of course also one does not have to go very far back in history for the vast majority of people to have been illiterate so books would have rarely been a repository for knowledge.
Most beliefs and rituals would have simply been handed down with each generation orally.
It has always been my understanding Anthropologically that most Animist religions and Shamanic rituals all over the world are incredibly similar in many respects so I cannot see why the "Old Religion" as she called it would have disappeared.
Probably with the arrival of science and logic? I mean psychological symbolism and archetypes etc, lean heavily on the knowledge of the ‘Old religion’ but strip them of their roots with nature. I find psychology and such very clinical compared to shamanistic/nature ‘magic’.
It is as if science regards nature as primitive and unclean.
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I find psychology and such very clinical compared to shamanistic/nature ‘magic’.
