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One thing I can tell you: Fifty years ago any "kid" who did this would have been considered a pervert. He would probably have been thrown into Juvy and his parents would have been ashamed to show their faces in public.
Times change.
It's not the times. They'd be considered perverts where I live too. This is not a typical sports sprank in my region. I've never even heard of it.
The question that keeps coming up for me is: Would some be so quick to dismiss this as "horseplay" or merely "fooling around" if these 14-year-old boys had committed the same assault against a 12-year-old girl? Somehow I highly doubt it, and I think that's a really unfair double standard and message to send young boys--that they are somehow less worthy of protecting. The victim in this scenario was the innocent boy who was held down while multiple boys put their bare buttocks, anuses and genitalia on his face. He is the victim. To him, it may have been very much an act of aggression with a sexual connotation because of the bare parts of their body the attackers chose to use. They didn't choose to put bare arms in his face, or bare ankles. They chose buttocks, anus and sexual organs. They made it into an act that could be felt by the victim as a sexual assault. This may have been a traumatic and shaming event for him, one that could require years to get over. That shouldn't be treated lightly by the law.
Here's my question; You are walking through the mall minding your own business, some strange man comes up to you, forces you to the ground, rips off his pants and sits on your face, how would you respond? Would you laugh it off as horseplay, say "boys will be boys"? I find it hard to believe, and yet it's okay when it happens to 12 year-old boys?
I don't believe in any life-long status as a sex-offender for juveniles, but I see no problem in labelling this for the short-term. There are consequences to actions, and teens need to learn that. Boys will be boys is not a good excuse for bad behavior.
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Originally Posted by h886
The question that keeps coming up for me is: Would some be so quick to dismiss this as "horseplay" or merely "fooling around" if these 14-year-old boys had committed the same assault against a 12-year-old girl? Somehow I highly doubt it, and I think that's a really unfair double standard and message to send young boys--that they are somehow less worthy of protecting. The victim in this scenario was the innocent boy who was held down while multiple boys put their bare buttocks, anuses and genitalia on his face. He is the victim. To him, it may have been very much an act of aggression with a sexual connotation because of the bare parts of their body the attackers chose to use. They didn't choose to put bare arms in his face, or bare ankles. They chose buttocks, anus and sexual organs. They made it into an act that could be felt by the victim as a sexual assault. This may have been a traumatic and shaming event for him, one that could require years to get over. That shouldn't be treated lightly by the law.
Where is the description of what happened by the 12 year old boys? I just see the side of the 14 year olds. Are the 12 year olds' parents shocked by the ruling? I'm not sure forcibly making someone else lick your ***hole is just horseplay. What if your neighbor came over and did that to you? Would you just laugh it off? The difference between 50 years ago and now is that we recognize that even kids deserve to be treated with respect. Maybe 50 years ago the victims' family would have found the other kid in an alley and sent him to the hospital and that would have been called justice.
The sentence is harsh, but this is no innocent victim we are talking about.
No one was forced to lick anything. That's how things get twisted, you are interjecting your own thoughts about what they did with no context. If you want more references for what they did, google "atomic situp prank", which is apparently quite popular in the armed forces these days.
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Originally Posted by FinsterRufus
What were the original charges? I know some incidents get aggressively prosecuted, but I wonder how severe this "horseplay" actually was for it to result in a criminal trial for one kid? Doesn't sound like a mere bunch of goofing around if that was the end result.
I worry about laws that are too all encompassing and end up penalizing people that they were never intended to be used against. It sounds like these kids fall under that category.
There is precious little information out there about the original charges which isn't surprising given the ages. All that has been reported is that the two boys were arrested over the incident after police were contacted. One of them agreed to plead guilty to criminal sexual contact, but was not aware of the Megan's Law provision. The other boy went to trial, where the fact the first boy plead guilty was known and he was convicted on the same charge. The boys are not appealing their guilt in terms of committing the crime, just their inclusion on the sex offender registry for life.
I agree with the rest of your post, I don't think they are innocent and don't deserve any punishment, but being labeled sex offenders is way over the top.
It's nauseating to me that anyone would label holding down a child and grinding a bare ass into their face as horseplay.
I grew up in NY public schools, played on tons of sports teams and had a bunch of siblings. I've been part of and victim of plenty of fun pranks. Nothing like this. I never even heard of this. That anyone would find this type of thing amusing is beyond my comprehension.
It's not the times. They'd be considered perverts where I live too. This is not a typical sports sprank in my region. I've never even heard of it.
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Originally Posted by Hopes
It's not common in my region at all.
I would reference you to the "atomic situp prank" or do a quick google search for "butt on face" or "fart on face", given the immense numbers of pictures and videos it seems pretty common. Videos for the "atomic situp prank" contain many members of the military doing it to each other in barracks. Apparently our entire Army is rife with sex offenders.
There's a serious flaw in our "justice" system (actually a system of laws with nearly zero "justice") that allows any killer or rapist to ever walk free again. But two wrongs don't make a right.
Yep, I would. It's a tough lesson, but I'll bet they won't be doing it again - which shold be the point of any punishment - to deter recurrance of the offense. Do you feel that because it's common it should be minimized? Then let's all start robbing banks and soon it won't even be a crime, right?
Justice has been done. People are just used to the idea that "justice" involves a slap on the wrist, community service at worst, and maybe a smalll fine. These boys chose to commit acts which resulted in their lives being altered. I don't imagine anyone was holding a gun to their head when their pants were coming down while the victims were held helpless.
Actually, again, yes. They sexually assaulted someone weaker than they were and stuck their smelly behinds in that victim's face, thinking it was funny. Bubba could stick his big stinky behind in their face and then they could see how much fun it is when on the bottom. That's justice - a leveling of the scale.
They just need to alter their ambitions a bit. They could have wonderful careers in the food service industry!
Sorry, but I can't buy the idea that "justice" was done by destroying the lives of two 14 year olds over a prank. Punish them for what they did, of course, but what essentially amounts to a life sentence for a moment of stupidity is way over the top.
I don't think they are innocent and don't deserve any punishment, but being labeled sex offenders is way over the top.
I'm just curious, if this happened to you, your wife, or one of your children, what would your response be, and what would you want to happen to the boys?
The trial court found that while the boys placed their buttocks on (or above) the victims’ faces, at least one of the boys’ penises touched the lips of a victim and might have parted the lips. Although that contact was unintended, it raises the act from horseplay and bullying to a more serious offense.
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