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This does not even make any sense. They took 21,000 women between 16 and 26, and as mentioned previously in the article, injected them with the vaccine and then tested them after 6 months. We can assume that they did not purposely expose them to HPV, or advise them to go out and sleep around. Nearly all of them did NOT have precancerous lesions after the 6 months. How many of them are they proposing WOULD have precancerous lesions after 6 months if they did not have the vaccine? How many were sexually active during that time? How many are in long term relationships (which I realize does not necessarily preclude one from catching HPV, but for the sake of the study, let's assume that MOST of the spouses/partners did not cheat on the women). There are so many holes in this 6-month study that it's not even funny!
HPV does not necessarily turn in to cervical cancer. Here's what the American Cancer Society says:
HPV can be prevented by condom use.
Cervical cancer is nearly 100% curable.
A lot of ifs: IF a person is sexually active with an HPV-infected partner, IF they don't use a condom, IF they contract HPV, IF they're one of the very few who get precancerous/cancerous lesions, IF they don't catch it with a PAP smear... then IF the vaccine works, it might be worth it.
adding one more IF (although statistically its not an IF)
what will/would you say to your daughter if/when she comes to you and says she caught HPV, and ask why you didnt get her vaccinated?
So IF she catches HPV and IF she even finds out about it, then IF she comes to me and asks why I didn't have her vaccinated with an iffy vaccine (which, honestly, I doubt she will... my kids know at their young ages that some people believe in the benefits of routine vaccination, and some, like us, do not), I will tell her that I made what I considered the healthiest decisions throughout her childhood. I will also lovingly suggest to her that if she had been sexually pure until marriage, or at least used protection while having sex, she would not be in this predicament, and that she should consider herself lucky that HPV is ALL she caught!
I don't understand why you're saying "statistically this is not an IF." I do not have HPV, and I did not have the vaccine. I'm not terribly old, I only "aged out" of the vaccine within the past few years. Making responsible and healthy choices is more effective against HPV than the vaccine.
So IF she catches HPV and IF she even finds out about it, then IF she comes to me and asks why I didn't have her vaccinated with an iffy vaccine (which, honestly, I doubt she will... my kids know at their young ages that some people believe in the benefits of routine vaccination, and some, like us, do not), I will tell her that I made what I considered the healthiest decisions throughout her childhood. I will also lovingly suggest to her that if she had been sexually pure until marriage, or at least used protection while having sex, she would not be in this predicament, and that she should consider herself lucky that HPV is ALL she caught!
I don't understand why you're saying "statistically this is not an IF." I do not have HPV, and I did not have the vaccine. I'm not terribly old, I only "aged out" of the vaccine within the past few years. Making responsible and healthy choices is more effective against HPV than the vaccine.
have you been tested? you might have it and not know it.
I have had only one sexual partner (my husband) in my life, and since we've been together for 14 years and I've never tested positive, I can't imagine that I have it or that I will somehow acquire it....
So IF she catches HPV and IF she even finds out about it, then IF she comes to me and asks why I didn't have her vaccinated with an iffy vaccine (which, honestly, I doubt she will... my kids know at their young ages that some people believe in the benefits of routine vaccination, and some, like us, do not), I will tell her that I made what I considered the healthiest decisions throughout her childhood. I will also lovingly suggest to her that if she had been sexually pure until marriage, or at least used protection while having sex, she would not be in this predicament, and that she should consider herself lucky that HPV is ALL she caught!
I don't understand why you're saying "statistically this is not an IF." I do not have HPV, and I did not have the vaccine. I'm not terribly old, I only "aged out" of the vaccine within the past few years. Making responsible and healthy choices is more effective against HPV than the vaccine.
Get educated!! Over half of all Americans have HPV and you do not need to have sexual intercourse to get it!! Condoms are NOT 100% effective against HPV either. http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/jun/06063009.html
(I should know....I am 28 and have always used condoms and was just diagnosed with HPV last summer.)
If you have read any of my other comments on this thread you should know that I found out this summer, after 10 years of normal, annual pap smears, that I had high grade dysplasia (pre-cancerous lesions) caused by a strand of HPV that causes cervical cancer. I had never had an abnormal pap smear before. I have had very few sexual partners in my life (was a virgin until 21) and none were without protection. I had laser surgery to remove the pre-cancerous cells and now, after my 3 month follow-up pap they are back. So......on to another biopsy in a few weeks and most likely another, more invasive surgery to follow. Each surgery affects my chances of being able to conceive and carry a baby safely to term. It is painful and uncomfortable and scary. I feel fine and healthy in all other respects, but knowing that cancer could be developing inside you .... EVEN IF THE CHANCES ARE SLIM ... is a terrible thing to go through. Knowing that the strands of HPV that most likely cause cancer can be vaccinated against is so great for our young generation. I will repeat again, whatever your reasons against vaccinations are .... I think this is one vaccination you will regret not getting for your daughters.
I have had only one sexual partner (my husband) in my life, and since we've been together for 14 years and I've never tested positive, I can't imagine that I have it or that I will somehow acquire it....
Wow, I am sorry if this offends you but you are naive and doing a disservice to your children but not educating yourself.
First of all, in reference to an earlier post of yours, condoms are not 100% effective against HPV. In fact, you don't even need to have sexual intercourse to get it. Any skin to skin contact can transmit it.....making out, oral sex, etc.
Secondly, do you know how they treat cervical cancer?? Usually, if you are lucky and get it diagnosed in the early stages (which is difficult sometimes because symptoms do not usually show up until advanced stages) you can get by with a hysterectomy. If it has progressed, that is not an option and you must undergo radiation and/or chemo. These treatments, I am sure you are aware, have many, many adverse side effects. You can look here The Cervical Cancer/HPV Community and here NCCC National Cervical Cancer Coalition to read patients' experiences with "almost 100% curable" cervical cancer treatments.
Thirdly, beanandpumpkin, an hpv test is NOT included in your annual pap smear. In fact, dysplasia is so highly linked to HPV that they do not automatically test for it. If you have an abnormal pap they will assume you have HPV.
Please, educate yourself about HPV (and NOT just the vaccine) before you make this important decision for your children. Who is to say what may be proven with it in the years to come before your children can be vaccinated anyway????
The Thin-Prep pap smear tests for HPV I believe. You need to ask your doctor which pap they do. The regular "conventional" pap does not.
My girlfriend had a full hysterectomy before the age of 30 because of HPV. Thank God she had already had 2 children. A lot of women don't have kids before 30, though! Do we want our daughters to have to face that?
ALSO, HPV causes some oral and throat cancers, too. Something else to think about.
I think that in most cases vaccines are extremely safe, and necessary from keeping massive outbreaks of horrible diseases from coming back.
I see certain members that appear to be fairly uneducated about certain STD's and how some diseases are contracted and not. I wish everyone would do research on HOW various diseases are contracted.
I know everyone does what they feel is best for their children. What makes me sad is seeing people not vaccinate out of fear alone, and not educating themselves on other risk factors. If we had a family history of problems with vaccines, or certain diseases or disabilities, I probably would not vaccinate- but for the vast majority of the country's population, vaccination is very safe, very effective and will not harm your child in any manner.
My one girlfriend decided not to start the normal vaccines at 2months old with her baby. But she is going to start them at 6 months instead. Her child will still be fully vaccinated by the time he goes to pre-school, and she feels more at ease with the whole process.
Location: Monterey Bay, California -- watching the sea lions, whales and otters! :D
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Quote:
BeanandPumpkin: So IF she catches HPV and IF she even finds out about it, then IF she comes to me and asks why I didn't have her vaccinated with an iffy vaccine (which, honestly, I doubt she will... my kids know at their young ages that some people believe in the benefits of routine vaccination, and some, like us, do not), I will tell her that I made what I considered the healthiest decisions throughout her childhood. I will also lovingly suggest to her that if she had been sexually pure until marriage, or at least used protection while having sex, she would not be in this predicament, and that she should consider herself lucky that HPV is ALL she caught!
I don't understand why you're saying "statistically this is not an IF." I do not have HPV, and I did not have the vaccine. I'm not terribly old, I only "aged out" of the vaccine within the past few years. Making responsible and healthy choices is more effective against HPV than the vaccine.
Wow, that's pretty intense. So, basically, if your kids happen to -- just happen to -- have sex when you don't agree (although it sounds like they'd never say anything to you anyway because of how you would blame them...) that they are deemed to live with your "punishment" (a disease) because you associated this with "impurity." Maybe you are in a religious order that punishes people for not following the rules of such an order. If that's not it, then maybe you just punish them for not being you. Let's hope that you get both the young man she may marry and herself tested before they have (or try to have) children, so in case the young man happened to have "tested the waters first" with someone else, that you will know. And, so in case she does become ill, that you will know how to handle it -- unless you just excommunicate her from the family. Each to their own, although what you may consider as "tough love" is really about neglect of your children.
As I've said before, most of those who are against vaccines -- of any sort -- are generally very young. Ironically, one would think that young people hearing more about all the diseases out there (especially sexually transmitted), would be more in tune with helping their children. Instead, there is a weird backlash to NOT protect their children...by virtue of group hysteria.
What's so interesting to me is that because I'm older and I've seen both sides of the fence, and being older, I also do not know of one ... not one ... person that I've known over a multitude of decades ... to have gotten sick or debilitated from any vaccines. This oppositional backlash is truly is the result of too many young people doing the opposite of what their parents or grandparents did and now they are not going to vaccinate their own children. Yet, many of these very same parents (which really interests me) have had vaccines themselves -- and are not autistic or debilitated, and probably don't know anyone who is (I'd love to hear about the many, many people they know who cannot live a normal life now because they had vaccines 20 or 30 years ago). And, so, in defiance, these same parents who are themselves protected, neglect their own children because they just don't see many others getting sick from these preventable diseases. Hysteria builds up, people who get stuck on harping about the dangers of immunizations keep the hype up and get money for their own alternative treatments, and fool parents into thinking they are actually doing something good for their children -- while the hucksters laugh all the way to the bank.
I've seen it. I've been around a bit too much, and have seen too much. Oh, I have seen people die by not having surgery and only using herbs, or a macrobiotic diet (which, I actually think is one of the best diets that exists) -- but sometimes other interventions are needed. Why die when there may be a hope of surviving?
I have worked in cancer hospitals and I've seen what people have done on religious and "moral" grounds -- unfortunately, I do not know any that survived. I'm not keen on chemo or any of that stuff, but on the other hand, sometimes that seems to be the key. Here's the irony - I have worked in holistic health, I have worked in regular hospitals, I have been heavily into alternative therapies.....yet, in spite of it all, when it comes to vaccines, I have not seen anything that trumps them.
Now, I realize that my opinion does not count for those who are so adamantly against something about which they do not know, other than what they read or a story they've heard here and there. There is no documented proof that all of us folks who have had vaccines are now autistic, disabled, blind, crippled or anything else (oh, yeah, I forgot -- a lot of those are the things that happen to people without vaccines).
It is a sad realization that our science and educational system is so poor that people of child-bearing age now do not understand the fundamentals of how a vaccine works. And that common sense, logic and sheer observation of others, does not seem to give them a clue as to the reality of what a vaccine will do. I say to bring on Polio, bring on Smallpox, bring on Measles, bring on HPV, bring on Whooping Cough, bring on Mumps, oh, heck, bring on the Bubonic Plague, too. And while you're at it, don't get rabies shots for your pets -- might as well "protect" them, too -- it wouldn't be fair to subject them to animal autism.
I am glad Highlandsgal and Crystalblue and Treeg26 are giving the balancing voice of reason --unfortunately, some of it through horrible personal experiences. I think their posts are much more effective and informative than mine -- I am glad they are here to illustrate how refusing to vaccinate your children is really child neglect.
Schools nowadays just don't teach critical thinking, logic, or life skills, so that students who grow into parents have tools to work with. Instead, young parents are in cases, literally denying their children a longer, healthier life, while professing their love for their children.
It's a shame when there are at least 60 years of past history with immunizations to show their effectiveness and how they have increased our life spans, yet there are young parents out there who ignore this critical information, and become oppositional without information other than some magazine article or talking to some hyped up other friend. Reality and experience are the best teachers -- looks like some of you are going back to school soon.
And I will tell you, had some of these vaccines been available when I was a child, and my parents refused to protect me, and I ended up crippled, deaf, blind, sterile or with cancer -- I would have such resentment and anger toward them, that I would most likely cut them out of my life forever -- because it would be clear to me that they never loved me enough to protect me, as a parent should protect a child -- and instead hurt me under the guise of no reliable data that showed that I would be hurt by giving me such vaccines. That is reprehensible when it comes to a little child who puts their full trust into their mother and father.
There is nothing an older, experienced woman who has lived over 60 decades can say to you who do nothing. All I can say is that pray to God that your children do not succumb to a preventable illness that can cause cancer, or other major problems, because you were arrogant enough to read some article or listen to one or two people who supported your point of view at the time, instead of thoroughly (and I don't mean a few magazine articles) investigating scientific information.
Vaccines are one of the greatest discoveries of mankind. To be blind and dumb to such "miracles" (and they could be put into the category of medical miracles) just shows how little you must know about hard science, and past history when our lifespans were so, so much shorter. With all the other unsolved and unresolved medical problems that still exists, I am grateful that at least vaccines were discovered and have been made globally available.
If you believe your children are intelligent and that they can figure things out....just beware...because eventually, especially if they fall prey to some preventable disease....they will easily figure out who is responsible: you. Love and hate are a fine line. Cross that line and pretend you love your children by not protecting them, and they can easily cross over into the hatred toward you when they realize you only cared about yourself and your own ideas -- not them.
And let me just add, that as a social worker, I have seen parents do horrible things to their children -- this does not make them black and blue, but it is possible that at some point, it could kill them. Think long and hard about your "values" and think long and hard about your children....and discover the cold, hard facts....maybe your children will still have a chance.
With that, I leave this to the smart, strong, and informed women here to carry the message forward. Thank you for your wise input, and if it helps even one child to become protected, it is worth it.
Good luck to you all.
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