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Currently smokers pay more, drinkers do not. Currently the idea of charging the obese more has been floated, but is not currently practiced.
My opinion is split along the two separate concepts above.
First, the statement that junk food has other harmful effects outside of making people fat. While this is true if not consumed in moderation, I am against legislating what amounts to someones choice to eat something that does not ultimately impact me. Further, I believe that one could probably live off of say the McDonalds menu just fine if they made smart choices and watched their calorie intake. I don't think junk food is inherently bad, it's just bad when consumed to an extreme.
This view is a little limited in scope IMO. Everyone knows that eating at McDonald's on a regular basis is pretty bad. But let's take a look at what my family is having for dinner tonight:
- Swedish meatballs w/ gravy (I guess they would not be swedish without!)
- mashed potatoes
- peas
- blueberries
- bread
Is that a healthy meal? Not really. Would you average moderately educated family necessarily know that? Would it be really easy to eat a diet like that, think that these foods are "healthy", after all they aren't McDonald's or cheetos or little debbie and still be obese? You betcha. The meat and potatoes meal is an American staple.
I think it is short sighted to look at the obesity epidemic and say Gee those big fat fatties need to eat less McNasty. There is are a great number of factors involved from evolutionary biology, to societal treatment of food as asocialization...
Currently smokers pay more, drinkers do not. Currently the idea of charging the obese more has been floated, but is not currently practiced.
My opinion is split along the two separate concepts above.
First, the statement that junk food has other harmful effects outside of making people fat. While this is true if not consumed in moderation, I am against legislating what amounts to someones choice to eat something that does not ultimately impact me. Further, I believe that one could probably live off of say the McDonalds menu just fine if they made smart choices and watched their calorie intake. I don't think junk food is inherently bad, it's just bad when consumed to an extreme. So, I don't think we should "protect" people by denying them the ability to make certain choices. There is marked difference in the concept of controlling lead or mercury versus eating a cheeseburger and fries.
Second, it doesn't matter how the obesity was caused, as that does have a direct impact on me vis-a-vis healthcare costs. My premium is what it is, because I am financing people who make my general risk pool higher. The 400 pound 55 year old guy who works in my building and has had 3 heart attacks pays exactly the same that I do for health insurance. I am subsidizing his healthcare. It doesn't matter how or what he ate to get that way, he should either work to control it or pay his actual share of the cost. This is a much more black and white issue to me.
His choices that led to him weighing 400 pounds and having a heart attack, impact me. Me as a guy in otherwise good health who occasionally eats a McDonalds cheeseburger and large fries really isn't causing anyone else harm. My choices should not be restricted because others can't control themselves, but those same people should be made accountable for the decisions they make that do impact others.
Yes, I agree, that makes sense as well. You can see why I'm on the fence. lol
In Arizona where I live obese or and parents of obese overweight kids are charged a fine if on welfare. At least I think it's passed. It's new and controversial but it is going to be the law. If they don't lose it they will be cut off. Period. Smokers as well. I'm sure drinking will be next although that one is always in the gray area. http://thestir.cafemom.com/healthy_l...ing_Fees_Prove
If health insurance rises for the obese as it does for smokers then I want it done for drinkers as well. Oh, and people who work in dangerous occupations because I don't. My list for this could get long I'm afraid and that is probably the case for many. In that respect I don't know how it's going to work out. They might just end up dropping the smokers and the subject.
It's still a hard one for me. Why should we even eat a pop tart? lol Except for the yum factor it isn't of any value. Why should the yum factor have any right over health? You would think we all want health. It's not just death we don't want but you would think we would all like to be free of illnesses that stalk us and make us miserable. We complain enough about them.
I don't disagree with this except insofar as it is challenging to feel sated on junk food. Recent studies about the blood sugar yo yo effect as well as my own reformation in eating habits makes it pretty clear to me.
Absolutely, but people still choose quantity over quality.
Quote:
I would be interested to see some details here. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that the weekly budget that includes fresh fruits, lean meat and fish from the outside fo the store is at least 3 times when I can feed the family if I buy nothing but macaroni, prepared food and the like. You don't have to be buying little debbie to be buying junk food.
I think we really need to quantify what we mean by healthy. Many of the studies point to going from "junk food" meaning all prepackaged crap and snacks to organic, free range, fresh everything. There are many levels in between. For instance fresh vegetables are better than frozen, but only marginally. I can buy piles of steamer bags of vegetables on sale for far less then it would cost me to buy them fresh. You can routinely get these things for $1 or less per bag. Then add on some lean skinless chicken breasts that you can get a giant bag of for around $15 that contains around 15 breasts that can then be cut in half. I can make a reasonable meal for four for around $5. Is it the absolute healthiest, no, but it is far better than what most would choose to spend $5 on in terms of food. The reason people don't do that is either taste or convenience.
Quote:
I think the television has precious little of value. The CONSTANT barrage of advertising is not useful in my opinion.
We see differently, but I don't think either one of us would want to see our personal choices be dictated by the government.
I say no because once you allow this to happen what are they control this time, what will be next?
It seems like as a country if ONE group doesn't like something they rally around to ban it even if it's something another group likes.
At the rate we're going, we're going to end up like Saudi Arabia, everything controlled, everything monitored..
Anyone read 1984? We'll be that book.
There's a group who wants to ban birth control.
There's a group who wants to ban toys in meals.
There's a religious group who wants magazines like Cosmo off the shelves at the check out counters.
Schools are checking kids lunches and deeming them unacceptable.
What the hell is our society changing into?
Some of our very basic freedoms seem to be going down the hole because another group doesn't like it, they put pressure on our government, those Moderator cut: snip want votes and great press and more supporters and they cave.
We need to go back to everyone living their own lives how THEY see fit.
Don't murder, don't rape, don't embezzle, steal blah blah blah.
People need to learn will power and etc.
I see these commercials for things all the time, I don't go out and buy them based on how awesome those commercials were.
We start censoring and controlling and it'll never stop.
Last edited by JustJulia; 03-19-2012 at 03:42 PM..
Reason: language
This view is a little limited in scope IMO. Everyone knows that eating at McDonald's on a regular basis is pretty bad. But let's take a look at what my family is having for dinner tonight:
- Swedish meatballs w/ gravy (I guess they would not be swedish without!)
- mashed potatoes
- peas
- blueberries
- bread
Is that a healthy meal? Not really. Would you average moderately educated family necessarily know that? Would it be really easy to eat a diet like that, think that these foods are "healthy", after all they aren't McDonald's or cheetos or little debbie and still be obese? You betcha. The meat and potatoes meal is an American staple.
I think it is short sighted to look at the obesity epidemic and say Gee those big fat fatties need to eat less McNasty. There is are a great number of factors involved from evolutionary biology, to societal treatment of food as asocialization...
More later.
Regardless of how big fat fatty managed to get that way, they alone have the power to change their situation and while there are many factors, they are all addressable without a government mandate as long as people are motivated to do it. I'm fine saying the fat person needs to pay more for health coverage and stopping there. If they are willing to accept that they are obese because of THEIR CHOICES, then they pay the extra money and live their life and I could care less how they go about it. We can explain it and excuse it anyway we want to, but at the end of the day, I do firmly believe that people who are obese are that way because of the choices they make.
This view is a little limited in scope IMO. Everyone knows that eating at McDonald's on a regular basis is pretty bad. But let's take a look at what my family is having for dinner tonight:
- Swedish meatballs w/ gravy (I guess they would not be swedish without!)
- mashed potatoes
- peas
- blueberries
- bread
Is that a healthy meal? Not really. Would you average moderately educated family necessarily know that? Would it be really easy to eat a diet like that, think that these foods are "healthy", after all they aren't McDonald's or cheetos or little debbie and still be obese? You betcha. The meat and potatoes meal is an American staple.
I think it is short sighted to look at the obesity epidemic and say Gee those big fat fatties need to eat less McNasty. There is are a great number of factors involved from evolutionary biology, to societal treatment of food as asocialization...
More later.
Right, that's what I meant by difficult. One, there is the chemicals in traditional "junk" food like snacks, cookies, jelly stuff, you know the kind you know your eating mostly things that aren't considered food.
Then there is food that was once on the pyramid, at the top, that has changed but in your mind it's still healthy food like meat, dairy, bread. Those have changed lately, it's now fish, poultry, low fat dairy no butter, and whole wheat bread. It's a hard one. Obesity and junk food don't always match up. I'm really asking about the junk. The crap we know isn't good. The other isn't what I had in mind but it's a vast issue. I think that's what makes it easier to just forget it. It get's tiring.
I say no because once you allow this to happen what are they control this time, what will be next?
It seems like as a country if ONE group doesn't like something they rally around to ban it even if it's something another group likes.
At the rate we're going, we're going to end up like Saudi Arabia, everything controlled, everything monitored..
Anyone read 1984? We'll be that book.
There's a group who wants to ban birth control.
There's a group who wants to ban toys in meals.
There's a religious group who wants magazines like Cosmo off the shelves at the check out counters.
Schools are checking kids lunches and deeming them unacceptable.
What the hell is our society changing into?
Some of our very basic freedoms seem to be going down the hole because another group doesn't like it, they put pressure on our government, those Moderator cut: snip want votes and great press and more supporters and they cave.
We need to go back to everyone living their own lives how THEY see fit.
Don't murder, don't rape, don't embezzle, steal blah blah blah.
People need to learn will power and etc.
I see these commercials for things all the time, I don't go out and buy them based on how awesome those commercials were.
We start censoring and controlling and it'll never stop.
Then with this mentality should we just get rid of the other regulations as well? Drinking age limits, drug bans, additives some claim safe others don't? Let everything be free for all?
Last edited by JustJulia; 03-19-2012 at 03:43 PM..
Then with this mentality should we just get rid of the other regulations as well? Drinking age limits, drug bans, additives some claim safe others don't? Let everything be free for all?
No.
All I am saying is we're giving the government way too much power to control things. Pretty soon, everything is going to be controlled and we're going to end up like those other countries that we go into with no democracy and everything is censored and controlled.
I believe it was for schools. They dont have to serve a vegetable or have a veggie option on the pizza, because pizza itself if a vegetable.
ETA when we make pizza at home, we dont even use red sauce. Whole wheat crust, garlic, low fat cheese and mushrooms and spinach. Yum
When did red sauce become "bad"? I make red sauce from tomatoes, onions, peppers, herbs, olive oil and a small dose of sugar (just enough to cut the acid). What's unhealthy about that?
I do use regular cheese though. I don't like low fat cheese as most are made with chemicals, which I think are worse than fat.
When did red sauce become "bad"? I make red sauce from tomatoes, onions, peppers, herbs, olive oil and a small dose of sugar (just enough to cut the acid). What's unhealthy about that?
I do use regular cheese though. I don't like low fat cheese as most are made with chemicals, which I think are worse than fat.
I worry more about chemicals as well. A lot of the fat free crap is worse in my opinion. I think I keep it to regular food. Anything grown or raised.
That's why the obese part of it is iffy to me. You can be thin and still be eating unhealthy and have heart disease.
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